Comments on: Mandarin Tone Changes

By: Sonja Elen Kisa

Sonja Elen Kisa — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 22:41:43 +0000

Is two 3rd tones in a row 35 21 or 35 214? Or does it depend on what comes after? (i.e. 35 214 at end of sentence and 35 21 if another non-3rd-tone follows)

By: Grammaticalization: Articles for Chinese? | Sinosplice: Life in China

Grammaticalization: Articles for Chinese? | Sinosplice: Life in China — Wed, 16 May 2007 15:03:11 +0000

[...] (first tone). It stays second tone because in 一个 the 一 has to be second tone due to Mandarin’s tone changes for 一. It’s not normal for that tone change to stick if you remove the reason for it, [...]

By: Chinese Tones | Doubting to shuō: Chinese, Investing, EFL and Being a Geek in Taiwan

Tue, 17 Apr 2007 04:01:28 +0000

[...] John recently wrote a similar post. The comments on get into a lot more details than I did. Wikipedia also has a good article on this. [...]

By: DJW

DJW — Sat, 15 Apr 2006 01:57:37 +0000

Drinking from a firehose? There’s a chengyu for you…

By: Peter Silversweig

Peter Silversweig — Fri, 14 Apr 2006 17:22:26 +0000

Everyone that I've talked to that has attended other Taiwan or China Chinese programs and then gone to ICLP has said that ICLP is far above and beyond anything else, whether it's the Princeton program, the Columbia program, the Middlebury program, Mandarin Training Center (at National Taiwan Normal University, also in Taipei), Nanjing, etc...

This is not to say that ICLP is perfect, but that usually the problem is how hard you want to work and how much time you're willing to spend than anything else... the general consensus is that going to ICLP is like drinking from a firehose. The teachers know your weaknesses and give you plenty to work on. The use of digital audio files and the emphasis on participation (beyond repeating what the teacher says which is really common in schools in China) is also what sets the school apart. Most students go to the computer class after class to drill themselves listening to the audio files, and then work on written homework.

By: DJW

DJW — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 18:57:44 +0000

Max: some of these tone sandhi combinations depend on how fast you are saying the sentence etc.

By: Prince Roy

Prince Roy — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 15:58:26 +0000

Mark, I understand all that, but you have to take anyone's appraisal of a program with a certain grain of salt. You'll have as many opinions as alumni. In the final analysis, it will come down to the effort you put into the program. ICLP and IUP are very similar. Princeton in Beijing offers a summer session that could also be highly effective. I think the trick is to go into any you choose with both barrels blazing. You sound like you are very serious about learning Chinese, and I'm glad to hear it. There will be students at any of those who are not so serious as you are and the trick is #1: don't take classes with them, #2: if you are stuck with them, make sure the teacher realizes how motivated you are, and go for broke in your one-on-one tutorials. Maybe you could arrange to sit in on a lesson there, since you already live in Taipei. If you'd like, I can try to contact one of my former teachers.

Bottom line: all your choices are good ones. I am recommending you do the year at ICLP simply because I had a positive experience there, and the teachers I had were on top of things. And I still think that Taiwan is a better place for formal Mandarin instruction. Good luck, and whatever you do, don't leave Taiwan until after I get there in June!

By: Max

Max — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:03:06 +0000

This is very intersting reading, I always thought that 往北走 should be pronounced wang3 bei2 zou3, since 往左拐 is pronounced wang3 zuo2 guai3. But the file here seems to indicate that 往北走 should actually be prnounced wang2 bei2 zou3. I wonder why that is. Anyway I think you can pick up these things by ear. I figured out the 2nd tone sandhi by ear before I ever read the rule. In my mandarin studies I'm now trying to forget everything I ever learnt about tone sandhi and just listen to the intonation of native speakers.

By: Mark

Mark — Wed, 05 Apr 2006 08:16:24 +0000

Since it's so expensive and would mean investing most of my time for a full year, of course I have to get all the information I can. So far, I've IMed a coupld of previous students, talked to you, and looked around on all the message boards I can. With the exception of DJW, nobody has had anything negative to say about it except the price. I've already saved up enough to go there and not work for a year, and once my work contract has finished, that's where I'll go unless I hear a lot of really bad things about the place from people who actually went there.

By: Prince Roy

Prince Roy — Tue, 04 Apr 2006 22:58:56 +0000

Mark,

Believe me, I understand your dilemma and second-guessing. At the end of the day, no one is going to be able to make up your mind for you. You just have to make a decision and go with it. Whichever one you make, do not look back.