Old enough to learn also means old enough to run around without supervision 24/7… and I’ve not been to a medium to large city yet in China that wasn’t a health and safety nightmare.

Just nix the 24/7 bit… dunno how that slipped in there.

(yes Chinese schools are more advanced academically, but our local school didn’t see it that way – if you haven’t done their curriculum, you start form the bottom)

More advanced? Only if you want a kid that’s got a head full of formulas and not a clue how to use them. A kid that can quote great works of literature but hasn’t the slightest of their significance or relevance. It would take a lot to argue the supremacy of the Chinese education system.

I do agree that perhaps taking advantage of both systems is the best solution. Those first few years are generally the toughest and when help is needed most. Chinese families are unarguably life-savers for this. Plus cheap costs of living help give us laowai a load of time to spend with our young ones. I’m certain that even on a modest ESL teaching salary I’d have hours of more time a day to spend with my kid in those early formative years.

School age would be another thing. When the kid is old enough to learn, I want him/her learning in a free and open education system that promotes originality of thought. Old enough to learn also means old enough to run around without supervision 24/7… and I’ve not been to a medium to large city yet in China that wasn’t a health and safety nightmare. I don’t buy into that over-protection garbage that has plagued Western culture for the last generation… but I’ve got this photo I saw on ESWN a couple weeks ago forever burned in my mind of a father’s face buried in his hands weeping and a blood smear where his kid was before the bus hit him. It can happen anywhere, but I’m SURE it happens in China more.

I’ll take boring climbing trees, catching frogs, and campfire cookouts in a medium-sized North American city any time over that risk.

@Jeff: Suburbia is NOT the only option to a big city. I always hated the small city I grew up in… but now I’m realizing how idealistic it actually is.

No offense, but Asia is like Disneyland for white guys who couldn’t get girlfriends in the west. If the comment doesn’t make you upset, then it doesn’t apply to you. Otherwise it hits a little too close to home. I can understand that gut reaction.

I thought his percentage breakdown was funny because it’s true. I also thought his points about the difficulties of bringing up your kids in China is not only relevent, but one of the most important issues you’ll have to deal with–if you do want to be a “lifer”.

V

Not so good: pollution; overcrowding, never any privacy, weather forcing them indoors much of the year, nowhere to run free or play in the wild … and increasingly a lot of overprotective pressure from family (why aren’t they reading/doing calculus/learning violin yet? etc)

There may well be ways of getting your kids into local schools that I don’t know about, but we tried pretty hard and kept getting asked for extortionate amounts of money and to jump through a lot of hoops. And the classes we saw were pretty rigid, conformist rote learning ones with 40 to a class. The other factor is that once you drop off the primary education ladder in a western country, it can be very hard to get back on. You have to weigh up the balance: do you want your kids to be a year or two behind their peers if/when you return (yes Chinese schools are more advanced academically, but our local school didn’t see it that way – if you haven’t done their curriculum, you start form the bottom).

I’m sure if you really want to bring your kids up in China it will work out – we made the choice to bring them up in the west, and give our kids exposure to China via visitiing family and long visits during holidays. The stay in China option was just too hard and there were too many uncertainties. Besides, for growing kids I think Bondi Beach beats Beihai Park.

From my own experience of being raised in both urban and suburban areas, I wish I had never set foot in a suburb, and don’t have plans to subject my kids to such boredom. Climbing trees, who cares??? Are you Amish???

I just don’t see China as an uncivilized place. Maybe I haven’t been reading enough talktalkchina.com…oh wait. Chinese people spit and sometimes misinterpret pizza orders, or something inane like that. Fuckin’ savages.

I don’t think compassion and forgiveness are virtues related or unrelated with Christianity, but otherwise I’m right on with Micah. Family is 99% of who you are, the location you are raised in is basically a point of interest. In the end Shanghai is just another city.