Foreign Boyfriend, Chinese Parents

04 Mar 2004

I normally am not very interested in reading Chinese online. I just really can’t get interested in a lot of what’s written about. Recently, though, I found something that caught my eye. The writer is a Chinese girl with a foreign boyfriend (who is also very coincidentally named John). When she told her parents about her boyfriend, they were less than supportive. Below is a translated excerpt from the original.

> Friday, I finally mustered enough courage to tell my mom: John is my boyfriend.

> My mom was shocked, this being totally out of her realm of expectations. Without thinking she responded, “No way! Absolutely not! Your dad and I do not approve!”

> Although I had already steeled myself for her response, I never expected her attitude to be so adamant. Worriedly I asked her, “Why?”

> “He’s a foreigner. Your life backgrounds are just too different. In the future how are we supposed to communicate with him?”

> “He’s studying Chinese, so you can speak to him in Mandarin,” I said.

> My mom went on for some time, almost in tears by the end, saying, “What would you have us tell our friends? You’re not a kid anymore, why can’t you just find a nice classmate? I’m begging you!”

> I couldn’t continue the conversation with her; her words had stung me. It was as if John was her sworn enemy, who wanted to steal me from their side, never to return again.

> My mom called my dad into the room, because ever since I was little I had always listened to him the most. My mom hoped he could persuade me. Dad was calm, hoping I could consider the matter practically.

> My dad said, “You haven’t been dating John for very long at all — how can you understand him? Other than what he’s told you, you have no way of knowing about his past or his family. Westerners are too independent. Your methods of solving various problems are going to be drastically different, and your lifestyles are different. A lot of this can’t be changed over a whole lifetime. He can’t stay in China his whole life; he’ll want to leave, and he can leave any time he pleases. Then what are you going to do? There’s a whole string of problems that are going to be very hard to solve.”

> My parents love me deeply, and I’m their only child. They have put their everything into raising me, keeping me from all harm. All their hopes lie in me, and I’ve always worked hard to perfect myself. Nevertheless, their brand of subtle affection can sometimes feel suffocating. It’s like I’ve broken free from the refuge of their embrace to go explore a strange and wondrous world. I’m not my parents’ property. I should have my own life.

What strikes me most about this story, which took place in northern China, is how completely different it is from my own experience. My girlfriend’s parents’ reaction to me was not even remotely similar. They have always been warm and friendly, and talk to me like I’m a normal Chinese person. My girlfriend’s dad loves having a few beers with me. My girlfriend’s mom makes mental notes about any food I particularly like or mention liking, and next time I go to their house for dinner, it’s on the menu. I could go on and on. While I can never know how my girlfriend’s parents really feel deep down, the evidence seems to indicate that their point of view on this matter is worlds apart from the parents of this writer.

All I’m trying to say here is:

1. China is such an incredibly varied place; you get all kinds of people with all kinds of life circumstances and outlooks.
2. Shanghai is a singular phenomenon in China. There is no city like it, for so many reasons.
3. I am really incredibly lucky.

[NOTE: This excerpt has been translated and published with permission from the author. I am grateful to her for allowing me to share such a personal experience with an English-reading audience.]

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John Pasden

John is a Shanghai-based linguist and entrepreneur, founder of AllSet Learning.

Comments

  1. John: people say that China is one country, but in many ways that is not the case, like in this one.

  2. Anonymous Says: March 4, 2004 at 1:18 am

    And you forgot (4)
    4) All of the above + Shanghai people are more pragmatic than anyone else on the mainland.

  3. While this particular story is rather sad, I did find this story very interesting. Thanks for translating/posting it.

  4. My parents in law sort of reacted like this, but they are from a remote village. However, they were more about the not trusting my culture and what would happen to my wife in the culture, rather than the difference between us. Now they see all that stuff was bologna anyways and the only big differences are personal rather than cultural. I am amazed that a family from a tiny village would let me in. Great place.

  5. My one big hope is that when I actually meet them (they’re pretty far away so I’ve just not had the opportunity to do so yet) that they’re realize I’m not some foreign bogeyman out to steal their daughter.

    Here’s hoping…

  6. Da Xiangchang Says: March 4, 2004 at 9:08 am

    The lesson learned: people are different. 😉

  7. Hi John, how goes it? I read the parents plea and in all fairness, their concerns are valid. Yes, foreigners are independent and can leave any time they wish. The dad really spoke from the heart and I hope the daughter can appreciate it. Has there been a follow-up by the author? It isn’t clear to me if it was the FIRST mention of the foreign boyfriend that caused the response. Perhaps if they met and enjoyed a few beers, the outcome might have been different.

  8. Yes, I agree with Wilson that her parent’s input, especially her father’s, was from the heart. Even in villages not so small-2 million or less-word gets around quick that someone has a relationship with a foreigner in town. Announcing things to the family and friends should be done with extreme care and caution.

  9. In answer to a few questions (she’s my girlfriend):

    Yeah, this was the first mention. They knew that we were friends, and would have to be pretty oblivious not to notice that there was something else going, but not that we were dating. She definately respects what her father said (I think she’s still a little pissed about her mother’s response), and I’ve told her that if I were him I’d probably have all the same concerns. We’re both hoping that when I finally get to sit down with them (this summer, hopefully, as we’re currently separated by a significant distance) I’ll be able to assuage some of their fears.

    Thankfully she has a friend who married a foreign guy and went through basically the same thing, so she has some peer support. And she’s in a big city (and I’m not in the city with her), so the rumor mill isn’t quite so strong.

    I’m still reasonably optimistic, and so is she, and that’s all I can ask for.

  10. Optomistic about a girl with “oblivious” parents a “significant distance” away that you are “hopefully” going to see this summer?

  11. I would say this kinda thing happens to lots of people even within the same culture, but with ‘differences’ such as religion or ‘class’? As for language, sometimes Chinese-Chinese partners have difficulties with dialects, i.e. someone from out of the region who has ‘married-in’ can sometimes be excluded to some degree from lots of family occasions if he/she doesn’t learn the dialect (especially if the dialects are different). I have one Chinese friend who commented that he was glad he married his wife because they speak the same dialect! He then realised that my wife (Chinese) and I (big nosed Aussie) are certainly not from the same hometown! By the way, our lovely daughter was born in Shanghai on the 28th of Feb, 2004. My mother-in-law is with us (she speaks her dialect) – she and I get along really well with sign language and my basic putonghua. To my newborn daughter, the hospital staff were speaking Shanghaihua, grandmother speaking Rudonghua, my wife Putonghua and me – English! What a mixed up kid we are going to raise. You got to look on the bright side of life when it comes to differences and I think all too often, people make the excuse that the differences are ‘cultural’ when it’s not.

  12. Normal. Even in China, my very first girlfriend’s
    mother has the same comments: “He is from South,
    he will leave you after graduation, what would you
    do then?” Might much less in US, but I bet there
    is something similar in Europe, if not somewhere
    in US South. Good luck with the “foreigner” in
    love.

  13. My experience was somewhat similar — dating a lao wai was definitely not seen as a positive by my girlfriend’s parents. (“Doesn’t he have AIDS?” I think was the first reaction – no joke. I didn’t have the heart/balls to point out that AIDS is more prevalent in China than the US.)The main difference is that we live in the US and her parents live in China, so it is really a long-distance problem that doesn’t have much of an impact here. Anyway, I think when you start dating a Chinese you think the cultural differences don’t matter or don’t even really exist; a year later you will realize that cultural difference do matter and do exist, esp. anything regarding family relations. The mountain of negative stereotypes of Americans (true anywhere on Earth these days) can be a pain to climb as well…

  14. My boyfriend and I plan to visit my grandparents and relatives in China this summer. I’m Chinese, but I’ve been living in the US since I was 5. My parents (who raised me in the US) love my white boyfriend, but they think our PDA’s are almost too much to handle (holding hands, walking arm-in-arm). I mean, I’m in my 20’s, think of myself as a pretty mature girl, and it’ not like we make out in public. Could anyone give me some advice on proper rules of behavior in China (Nanjing, to be specific)? I don’t want to be walking down the road, arm in arm, while others stare in disapproval. Where’s the limit? Just how conservative are Chinese people?

  15. Less conservative than Americans when it comes to PDA. I don’t know about Nanjing specifically, but at least in Shanghai or Beijing you will see PDA all of the time. (PDA with a lao wai might be seen much differently, however.)As to how conservative Chinese are, again, that is entirely “age” dependent. 😉 (“generationally” dependent would be better). The gulf between an 18 yr. old Chinese and a 60 yr. old Chinese is amazingly large.

  16. Don’t walk down the road hand in hand. People in Nanjing are very laid back and easygoing. That I have experienced. In China they are known as the radish heads because they are simple. That is just what I have heard. If you really have the urge then go to New York, London or Hong Kong. Enjoy Nanjing. It is really nice and there is a sandwich shop there that makes fantastic stuff.

  17. FreeJack Says: March 5, 2004 at 2:13 pm

    The difficulty stems largely from cultural stereotyping too, I think. This is a mutual problem between the US and China. A guy in the US can’t have a Chinese (or asian) girlfriend without immediately being attacked for a fetish, or wanting a so-called “submissive” girlfriend (and John I’m sure you can attest to the fact that this is the BIGGEST myth of all). The Chinese girl MUST be after a visa to be with an American guy, too…right? It’s all ridiculous.

    Can’t we all just get along? 🙂

  18. Great to see all these comments! Sometimes I wonder if people are still out there reading….

    GregT, I totally agree that culture does not have to be such a huge issue, but then I do seem to adapt to other cultures a lot better than some people.

    Claire, I don’t think holding hands would be a big deal in Nanjing, but you probably would get some stares.

    Freejack, I’m totally with you on those myths. In all my years in China, I only dated one girl that MIGHT have had a visa in mind. (Those types are so easy to avoid.) As for the submissive girls… Yuck.

  19. You feel lucky because your girlfriend’s parents like you, I feel lucky that my girlfriend hasn’t told her family about me at all, and assures me that they would not approve of our relationship. I meant to give you back ‘Outrageous Chinese’, remind me next time you come to town.

  20. nathaniel Says: March 5, 2004 at 8:02 pm

    “we all know
    that people are the same
    wherever we go…”

    ebony and ivory

  21. Freejack, that “myth” is not true all the time, but it’s true very often, isn’t it? I see it all the time here in the US, especially among asian language students.

  22. Amanda Huang Says: March 6, 2004 at 7:03 pm

    Hi.John.Good post.
    Alf is lucky too.
    My mom likes Alf except for his smell.

    sorry Alfy.

  23. FreeJack Says: March 7, 2004 at 9:25 am

    Actually the myth I was referring to was the “submissive Asian girl” – as far as I’ve seen, those only exist in Western movies these days. 😉 I’m pretty sure there are a fair amount of women just cruising for a visa, but like John said – they’re easy to spot. “Marry me now, THEN we can get to know each other!” Yeah…sorry, but no.

  24. Coincidently, my ex is westerner too. My parents didn’t approve of him as he’s American. They also generalized white people were not trust-worthy in a relationship. Well of course, this is a faulty thoughts. Lucky that my parents realized that and are more acceptable to westerners now.

    Remember once I chatted with my former high school teacher. I told him I was going out with a white guy and he’s like, ‘OH NO!!’ I asked why he had such response and he goes, ‘Cos’ he’s American and you’re Chinese. You should date a Chinese guy, instead of with a difference race.’ I was, of course, annoyed by his racial prejudice.

    Sometimes, I feel that the elder chineses should be more open-minded and avoid obtrude their conservative lousy ideas upon others.

  25. Sorry, What is PDA?

  26. August,

    PDA = “Public Display of Affection.” Kissing, holding hands, etc. in public.

  27. It’s interesting to read all these opinions on interracial dating. An Indian friend of mine told me that if an Indian girl were to date a white guy, she’d be seen as a slut; however, if an Indian guy was dating a white girl, he’d be the pimp. The stereotypes with white/Chinese couples seem to be the same in China.

    In the US, the white guys is considered an asianphhile while the Asian girl is considered to be a bananna (yellow on the outside, white on the inside). It seems to be a lot more difficult for Asian guys to find girlfriends here in the US, because the Asian girls are going out with white guys. In equally large quantities, I see a lot of white girls going for black guys. I remember reading an article on this once. It’s all very confusing, and I must say that the two ethnic groups that are left feeling alone and jealous are Asian guys and black girls.

    I’m really happy with my relationship now, and I’ve consciously try to give guys of all races an equal chance. However, subconsciously, I know that I slightly prefer white guys over other races — love is not racially blind.

  28. hi john~

    one of my cousin is studying in UK. Before her plane took off, her parents told her never take a foreign boyfriend home.
    It varies according to diffeent ppl.
    Yes, it’s true. Communication problem does exist, especially dealing with the cultural stuffs. I had a fight with a Canadian Chinese last week. You know what, the cause is just the usage of “ass”. I thought it was a dirt word (look up from dictionary), but the guy uses it just to show cool. I really didn’t know it, and finally we quarralled. Aww! I tried to explain it to him, but it seems he refused to accept it. He is Chinese actually, but he is much western then you, john.
    Now I am really beaten down by the culture thing.

    I understand the girl’s parents. Communicating in different languages does cause trouble sometimes, even if you can speak their language.

    _

  29. Here, some guys claimed it is so easy for them to avoid a girl with the visa in her mind. I don’t think so. I know a bunch of these kind of girls. Most of them behave totally differently when they are dating white guys compared to when they are dating Chinese guys. It is not necessary for them to run after white guys to ask for a visa. But when white guys are courting on them, it is much easier for the white guys to win the girls and quickly go to the final step to lay down with them (I say “quickly” based on Chinese culture). I don’t deny there’s love involved in some cases. But for most cases, they are definitely not as simple as you thought. What’s other things involved? Think for yourself.

  30. That letter looks all too familiar to me. I’m a Dutchman, also studying in Shanghai and I’m determined to work here too.

    I have a Shanghainese girlfriend and her parents are more or less the same as that girl’s parents. My girlfriend read the letter with me and she smiled when she saw the resemblance. Her father is a professor at the university we study at and he’s a person like “You can’t buy anything with love. Find a successful Shanghainese boyfriend.” And, oh yeah, “All foreigners are players. They’re easy to cheat on you.” (Note: Because of the ‘business agreement-marriage’ they have here in many cases, many Chinese men have their own ‘xiaojie’ (girl) outside of their marriage)

    So basically the same happened when my girlfriend told her parents. Her father became mad of rage for her dating a foreigner and they told her to break up with me. ‘Officially’ she did.

    So now we have some kind of underground relationship. Something which made my girlfriend very unhappy, because she has to lie to her parents. But recently she decided to tell her mother, because she’s the most easy-going of her parents. And she took it very well actually. She listened to what her daughter had to say and said she wanted to meet me (which is next Monday). Her father, the extremely conservative professor, won’t know about this. She’ll tell him some time later.

    I know where it comes from, because the people here need to have a solid future and with a one child-policy they have to secure it even more, but narrow-mindedness like that from such a (suposedly) highly educated person did strike me. It’s even racism. Heh, I never thought I’d become a victim of racism.

  31. I am a 24 year old Shanghai girl and hs an English boyfriend. He has met my parents and both of them like him a lot. Luckily, two aunts of mine married two foreigners, one from Japan and one from Belgium. The marriages go well. So my parents r open-minded about relationship with westerners. Acturally, i feel my English BF is really good, considerate and trustful. Everywhere has good and bad boys. People shall be more open-minded.

  32. Argh. Lots of (unpleasant) memories from reading the anecdote. Was in similar situation 5 yrs ago (albeit in Singapore) where I heard exactly the same things – I kid you not. “How are we going to communicate with him ?” “The cultural difference is too big, I bet his family wouldn’t accept you either.” “Chinese men are more traditional, if they fool around we can give them a good talking-to and they’ll listen to us” (yeah, right) blah blah blah. Oh, and did I mention that I was also threatened with disownment if I ever married a non-Chinese ?
    Have no idea if things have improved over the years (they may well have, but I don’t particularly want to find out otherwise), so I tend to go the “don’t ask don’t tell” route. Which is easy since I’m halfway round the globe. I figure if I ever get married, I shall exploit that nice big fat (Singaporean, or pan-Chinese ? am not sure) loophole that says one isn’t really married unless one’s gone through the traditional Chinese ceremony. (One of the weirder things I’ve ever heard re: divorced couple: “Yeah, well, that’s no big deal that they broke up, they weren’t really married, only engaged.” “Wha- ?” “Yeah, they haven’t had the trad ceremony.” “Uh, but they are legally married, that’s why that had to get a divorce, no ?” “Yeah but that doesn’t count.”)

  33. I have a friend marrying a Singaporean Chinese. Her olds objected because his head and ears were too small. I kid you not.

  34. chinese gal Says: January 20, 2005 at 12:40 am

    Not all girls date white guys.
    Here in the Western countries there is a growing trend of Chinese girls dating Indian guys.

    Indian parents tend to be like Chinese parents and not like Indian to marry outside their race.

    There are lot of White caucasian girls dating Indian guys here, but very few chinese girls.

    I think Indian guys are so cute, being Asian yet different, with light fair to brown and dark skin tones, yet keeping their sharp features.

    My favorite Indian actor is Jimmy Shergill, although he is in his 30s now and married, still is a great looker.

    You’l see what I mean girls if you type keyword Jimmy Shergill on google search, or jimmy shergill forever.

    Perhaps a picture or two of him could be put here?

  35. Da Xiangchang Says: January 21, 2005 at 5:49 am

    I’ve thought long and hard of the phenomenon of pink-golden relationships so here are my opinions:

    Chinese views: No Chinese person really cares if his son/daughter marries a pink person. They might superficially seem unhappy, but deep down, they’re proud. They’re proud because their son/daughter is marrying into a race most Chinese, even if they deny it, consider above them–the pinks. Just like a lot of Chinese people show off their pink friends like trophies–look, I’m special enough to attract a pink person’s attention!–so do the parents of their children’s pink boy- and girlfriends. This attitude again is due to the Chinese sense of racial inferiority–buried deep but always there.

    Pink views: Well, these run the gamut. Since pinks don’t consider themselves inferior to anyone, they don’t really have any psychological hangups. However, there IS a class of pinks who specifically only date goldens, almost always women. I honestly believe that some pinks date non-pinks because they feel insecure around their own people (just like non-pinks date pinks to feel better about themselves). Because when some pink person dates a non-pink person, he would always think, “Man, no matter what, I’m pink and she’s not so she’ll always be less than me!” A pink person, of course, couldn’t entertain such an attitude if he’s dating another pink person. But again, this is hard to figure out since a pink person might date a non-pink person because she’s hot or kind or whatever; the racial aspect never enters the equation. So it’s hard to detect, but without a doubt, the phenomenon is VERY prevalent, even if people don’t admit it.

  36. Da xiangchang, If someone dates a Japanese person because just because ta thinks Japanese culture is cool, then ta isn’t dating the person because ta likes to think ta is superior to the person, Doing that is still weird though.

  37. I am from Beijing and studying in Germany. I practically enjoyed with a white English guy who is a son of Journalist, a correspondent in Shanghai and Hong-Kong before. To be honest, I had a relationship with him at the same time as I had a chinese boyfriend. I don’t see why Chinese girls are so submissive. I belive the majority of chinese girls like to marry with White guys, to get a safe visa first (many of my friends talked in private) and get along….I think many chinese girls nowadays changed their taste into white guys. On the other hand, it is too pity for my male chinese friends,….

    As most chinese parents belive western men are so independent, and he will leave you….all of these unpleasant words turned true from my experiences…

    The white English guy was a sort of man who is seeking for asian girls so he had many relations with the other chinese girls. He once spoke out while he was sleeping.. about the other chinese girls’ name. How awful he was is a warn to present chinse girls who are in a relationship with white guys, you must check his out whether he is a kind of nut who chase sexy asian girls…..

    I don’t forget his comment that chinese girls are so easy to sleep and to handle on the bed….this changed all of the views about the white…

  38. Da Xiangchang Says: January 28, 2005 at 8:06 am

    Haha, that’s a funny comment, Tingting. But you can’t blame pink guys for wanting to get intimate with Chinese women. Trust me, that’s 95% of the reason why Western men live in China (or any other developing country): the easy women. I know it was for me! Of course, there are those whose motives are less salacious, but they’re truly hard to find–or they’re gay. I ain’t going to lie: if it’s as hard to get laid in China as it is in Los Angeles, I would NEVER return to China. And any Western guy who says the easy women isn’t at least PART of the reason for living in China is a liar, plain and simple. They’re either lying to others, or lying to themselves. Of course, this doesn’t make them bad people. They’re just men, and if there’s one thing women need to understand, it’s that men are ALL BASTARDS. Out of 100 men, 95 of them would cheat if given the chance, and only 5 would stay faithful. I have a very bleak view of guys, I guess, and Chinese women, who could be totally naive, should be aware of this. Some advice for Chinese women: the key to finding out if a laowai likes you for YOU or not is to not let him have sex with you for a LONG TIME.

  39. For sure it was also difficult for the Chinese girl to go against her parents’ will. But then she cannot also deny herself and her love for John. You cannot please everyone when you decide to enter in a relationship. The challenge is even more difficult when it is your parents who are against the relationship. Tha is where love is put to test. If you really love a person and you are convinced that he/she is your soul mate, I believe it is worth maintaining the relationship. Happiness can only be found in true love.

  40. I believe Chinese people value their culture very much. As much as possible, Chinese parents want their children to end up with people who have at least some Chinese blood in them. I had a Chinese boyfriend before. His parents didn’t like it that I wasn’t Chinese. I had a hard time dealing with the parents. I especially had a hard time bonding with his mom. It came to a point that I let go of my boyfriend. I couldn’t bear the thought that people are unhappy because of me. I didn’t want his parents to disown him on my account. We’re still communicating though.

  41. Hey!

    When I began my romantic relationship with my wife, her mama wasn’t too thrilled about it, but later ol’ mom came around to my earnest desire to court her number one daughter; later, I found out that ol’ mama feared her daughter would become hurt; that is, I would take the relationship as casual, ,and later flee back to the states. However, that fear quickly went away.

    I haven’t experienced any racial or nationalistic prejudice from her family. I have been angry at her sister-in-law, but it seems that’s a common emotion that everyone in her family shares with sister in law, or as we know her in any language: the uncouth bitch.

    In the general arena of Chinese daily life, it’s a whole different matter, and certainly PDA will draw attention, but just being together does that enough.

    I often muse about the “Ol Footwashing Asian Princess” stereotype that some westerners may have about Western-Asian relationships. Muse about it, because that’s all it is.

    There’s really nothing whatsoever submissive about my wife. I’m the one that’s submissive. Qi guan yan definitely is applicable.

  42. Interesting to see that this thread has taken life again.

    Well, I’m the foreign boyfriend mentioned in the post, and I’m happy to report that things have gone pretty well since this post was made–we got married on August 20th. 🙂

    In retrospect, I understand her parents’ fears, but once I met them and they got to know me and realize that, as Hank said in the above comment, I wasn’t going to just run away, things went smoothly. I’ve even travelled to Inner Mongolia to meet her extended family (and quickly get drunk under the table!). I’m pretty sure I can safely say that I’ve been accepted into her family, and her into mine.

    It took a little work, but really what relationship doesn’t?

    • How long did it take for her parents to accept you? And what did you have to do to show them you do not fall under the stereotypical “white male”. My boyfriend and I are getting married and my family have disowned me.

      Please I need your help. Thanks!

  43. Very true daxiangchang. What about the opposite question, which is of more interest to some of us: how does a male laowai know when a chinese girl loves “you for you” and not for your money or passport or skin color etc.

  44. This is a very interesting thread!

    I don’t normally read this kind of stuff, but just recently my Chinese girlfriend has revealed the secret of our relationship to her parents. They then pressured her to leave me, which she didn’t. But the stress got too much for her and she deteriorated, psychologically – not mad, but all torn up. It has become a real mess. I’m worried for her, and to top it off, her parents have contacted me directly to tell me to stop ‘harrassing’ her. I was categorically not ‘harrassing her’. Simply carrying on the relationship.

    Aiya – I’ve lived in China for 4 years, and can speak the language. And this wasn’t the countryside, but Beijing.
    Da Xiangchang – too many stereotypes and generalizations, boyo! Do you really think that Chinese women are so much easier to bed than, say, British or Americans? And – while it does sometimes occur – that whole ‘visa’ issue is also used as a justification by Chinese women who want to bed white men (it’s a more respectable reason than ‘sexual desire’ would be in the eyes of their Chinese friends).

    Lots of white men like Chinese women not because they are ‘easy’ or ‘passive’ (they may be, but no more than any other), but because they are generally fun and lively partners; many Chinese women like white men because they are generally trained to be more considerate towards women, and more liberal.

    (Asian women in general do look a bit better than their Western counterparts, it must be said.)

    Chinese women who really want an easy life, nowadays, will look for the Chinese ‘dakuan’ (big-money) rather than a potentially unreliable foreigner who may not understand the transaction.

    Anyway, long and the short of it is that it’s not always easy!

  45. Biqi,

    Short answer to that one: on the whole, Chinese women will act all ‘conservative’ with men when they want something (passport/money etc.) out of them. Beware of the ‘Chinese women don’t have sex before marriage’ thing – categorically not true. In fact, as I write this, I am living in a house in the UK with two Chinese students boffing each other loudly in the room above! (Not married, and probably never will be.)
    If she likes you, it will become physical with no demand for commitment.

  46. Had some more thoughts about the issues raised by Big Sausage.

    Yes, it’s true that many laowai in China get it on with Chinese girls. But I guess that many laowai in the Ukraine get it on with Ukrainian girls – just as, probably, many Ukranian girls in the US get it on with American men.

    Am I the only one who thinks that this may be completely normal? That it is not really surprising that one tends to associate with, and develop attachments and interest in, the people with whom one lives?

    I think the truly abnormal thing is for the reverse to occur.

  47. Da Xiangchang Says: October 28, 2005 at 10:04 am

    Biqi,

    “How does a male laowai know when a chinese girl loves ‘you for you’ and not for your money or passport or skin color etc”? That’s easy. Once you marry her and take her back to your own country, if she stays with you once she gets her residency papers, she loves you. If she divorces you the second she gets those papers, she doesn’t. Haha. But seriously if I were a laowai who doesn’t want to wait that long, I would consider 2 things 1) does my woman seem materialistic and 2) can I get this caliber a woman back home? If you answer yes to the first question and no to the second, you’re screwed! Find a nice, well-balanced Chinese girl who’s not too hot, and you’ll be okay.

    Tom,

    Well, of course, those are total generalizations, but generalizations don’t make it less true: a lot of laowais come to China just to get laid. And you’re right: Chinese women aren’t any looser than Western women. However, you’re missing the basic idea: laowai STATUS. A laowai in China can assume that no matter where he goes, generally most women would find him interesting–which is NOT the case in his own country. Case in point: awhile back, I remember reading on this blog some Western guy asking a Shanghai Hooters girl her phone # and getting it. Good for him, but I also know for sure that not in 1,000,000 years would he do that or get the same response in a Hooters back home. THIS is the appeal of China.

  48. John–I keep trying to post this on Foreign Boyfriend, Chinese Parents. Every time I try, I get a zero-sized reply error. Weird. So I’m trying to put random characters in words to see if it helps.

    By the way, sorry about the bad word in my last post.

    Da Xiangchang–I found your posts on pink/golden relationships insightful and entertaining.

    But the Chinese racial inferiority thing has two sides, don’t you think? Flip the coin and Chinese are immensely proud.

    Regarding Chinese girls and visas–nobody should kid themself. It’s always part of the equation, sooner or later. My wife was never fixated on visas. Then right after we got married, we were shocked: all of her friends, colleagues and acquaintances started asking her about her new shenxfen, i.e. status. And all of the sudden she’s like, oh my god, if I don’t get a grxeen carxd right away are people going to think I’m a loser?

    There are weird social forces interfering with her cool.

  49. Da Xiangchang Says: October 31, 2005 at 1:07 am

    Laska,

    “But the Chinese racial inferiority thing has two sides, don’t you think? Flip the coin and Chinese are immensely proud.” Yes, but it’s their racial insecurity that drives their immense pride.

  50. Hi all,

    I am a French guy of Chinese origin and John’s story give me some hope! I learned the hard way that dating a Chinese girl was more complex than I thought. I do know now that dealing with a girl’s parents is something to carefully deal with with utmost consideration and patience. I failed with my former girlfriend in part because of their fierce opposition. They put bad words in their daughter’s head and that influenced our relationship in a negative way… Now with my new girlfriend, it seems that her parents are way more open and I feel much lighter not to have to fight an (uphill) battle against people I want as part of my family in all sincerity… I hope to be as lucky as John! 🙂 I believe in YuanFen now!!!

  51. Yeah…. This is a pretty good thread, I have been meaning to write something about the whole Westerner-Chinese Girl/s. I don’t really date, anywhere. Now, I am living in China and there is no question at all that it is much easier to get laid here with attractive women than in most western countries. As for Chinese girls wanting a Visa or money or whatever, I don’t really buy it. I almost spend no money on the girls I see and I certainly make no illusion about my short term commitment. I really think that Chinese girls prefer foreign guys for other reasons, more experienced (both in bed and through their travels/life experiences), more liberal, more open minded and generally they treat girls with more respect and do not expect the chinese submissive girl thing. I will definitly expand this later on, but all these comments are definitly inciteful.

  52. Chinese pragmatism :
    My -gay- chinese boyfriend’s mother Saturday :
    “you don’t have to get married (he is 28, clock is ticking) just as long as you find a way to give me a grand son”
    I think progress is on the way !
    She’s been watching lots of TV…

  53. Does anyone know that to marry a chinese girl in China u need the permission of her parents signed in the marriage reg. office?
    There’s a solution though : go to another country 🙂

  54. Gedanken,

    According to this Getting Married in China guide, “You do not need permission from his or her family (though obviously there are non-legal ramifications of having non-approving parents-in-law).”

  55. Hmm. I am very interested in Chinese culture. I have always wanted to find a lovely and warm hearted Chinese ai-ren. However I am poor (which makes life in the US difficult enough!) and am a white male in early 30s so I don’t really have the means to go to China. Also I have not yet finished university due to financial reasons but am trying to get back to school now. What is the view of Chinese girls on guys like me? I read somewhere that if a guy isn’t married by age 33-35 he is considered not a good man to marry in China. As a Christian (Ji Du Tu) I face a different problem because I believe sex before marriage is wrong (and there are psychological, emotional, physical reasons besides the theological) and will not do sex before marriage. So would a Chinese girl likely not be my nv pengyou once she learned this? Or would she cheat me and have sex with one of the many willing Chinese/lao wai? How can I know if she is a good girl? Also I would not marry a girl unless she is also Christian (Ji Du Tu) belief. Would Chinese Christian parents be more accepting if their daughter married a non-Chinese (white skin, tall, blond hair, blue eyes) meiguo-ren Chinese? I know a little Pinyin but wish to learn Chinese well.

    Thanks,
    Zinpgh

  56. CORRECTION:

    I meant to say:

    Would Chinese Christian parents be more accepting if their daughter married a non-Chinese (white skin, tall, blond hair, blue eyes) meiguo-ren?

  57. “To be honest, I had a relationship with him (white guy) at the same time as I had a chinese boyfriend.”–tingting

    “How awful he was is a warn to present chinse girls who are in a relationship with white guys, you must check his out whether he is a kind of nut who chase sexy asian girls…..”–tingting

    Ha ha. This post was so funny. Yeah, warn all the Chinese girls out there about the EVILS of white boys. Meanwhile, cheat on your Chinese boyfriend with a white boy. (Was this post a joke?)

    G

  58. The Chinese new year is here and I have been invited to see my girlfriends parents for the first time – and honestly I am scared to death.

    So if they have invited me to their home, why so scared? Because I think they do it out of courtesy to my girlfriend, not because they really want to see me. As mentioned earlier, in some cities words gets around quickly, and this is in deed one of those cities. I was told that in the whole city lives only to foreigners – makes it all better huh? But after all, I’m getting the full tour to all parts of the family, must mean something I keep telling myself.

    But there is also a Catch 22 to the story, my girlfriend is now 24 (yes a dog, red underwear all year, haha) and in her parents eyes not so young anymore. If she plays along with me for to long she will be to old to get married with a nice chinese guy. But at the same time they are telling her not to do anything stupid like run off and getting married to me… When I read it printed, her parents seems like really clever people!

    They have also already told my girlfriend that they strongly disapprove to our relationship, telling her all the same things as the chinese girl who wrote the first post… And I definitely understand their concern and more or less agree with it. I am not sure I will stay in China for the rest of my life, but what I know is that I really love her and always will be good to her.

    But also I want her to see the life I live, my culture, what makes me me and hopefully that will make her understand me even better so that she can come up with some good arguements for keeping me to tell her parents.

    Sadly I also realize that she belongs in China, I can never imagine her living in any other country, and why should she? She would probably be stuck in front of the TV, without work, slowly fading away. It’s like some prosimians, which doesn’t survive in captivity, you have to let them stay where they belong.

    My major concern is the language barrier; My Chinese is not really that good after 1.5 years of studying the langauge. Normally I have a sweet mouth and a really nice manner, also my other education is nothing to complain about and previous girlfriends parents have all really liked me. But now I feel lost, it’s like wandering in to a cage full of tigers just looking for an opportunity to a snack.

    And to all you guys just looking for a kick-ass sexy Chinese girlfriend, at least try to be honest to them.

  59. “I really think that Chinese girls prefer foreign guys for other reasons, more experienced (both in bed and through their travels/life experiences), more liberal, more open minded and generally they treat girls with more respect and do not expect the chinese submissive girl thing.”

    Yes, yes, we all love our fantasies, but tell me–
    what would the situation be like if China was as well off as the US and the West was as poor as China? There’s a decent-sized Brazilian population in Japan. Do the Japanese women love Brazilian men? Are the Brazilians there not more experienced, liberal, yadayada than you?

    Also, this is anecdotal, but I’ve found more Asiaphile white guys seeking submissive Asian girls than Chinese guys who are looking for submissive Asian girls.

  60. Agree with DXC. There is no way that Shanghai Hooters guy would risk the miserable rejection and sheer embarrassment by approaching the U.S. Hooters, after year of escape in the land of ‘warm-hearted’ chinese women!

    To DXC, I think the whole asiaphile deal is a pretty simple socio/economical phenomenon of the exchange of money/sex, i.e., undesirable western men seeking beautiful yet poor chinese girls.
    It only gets complicated by the laowais calling it ‘love’ or ‘great cultural exchange of the east and the west’, in an attempt to turn it into some fairly tale. Only for laowais part, that ‘love’ requires a sense of social/financial uperiority and ‘less abrasive’ female qualities at very minimum, and greencard/money for the women.

    I know I’m talking in general and there are few exceptions, but how many of those laowais are telling their girlsfriends ‘honey, I really love your country, so I decided to give up my U.S/U.K/Aussie citizenship to become a Chinese so that we can live in China forever. You can earn money while I become a full-time dad’? And how many of them are doing completely the other way round?!

  61. Hi John

    Very interesting tranlation thanks for that.I am a German live in England and my girlfriend is from China.I just can tell that her relations are very open minded and make you ever feel so welcome.We are living both in the Uk and it is just wonderful to be a part of a chinese family.
    Best Regards
    Borg

  62. Willian Says: May 8, 2006 at 12:18 pm

    if you handsome can fuck any chinese, they want money. they don’t do any true friendship or love , they are actors. They are not serious about one man.
    even decieve their husbands

  63. Michelle Says: May 10, 2006 at 9:23 pm

    I know a girl, she is very naive as many Chinese girls are. She fell in love with a westerner, who chase her firstly. She is a traditional/conservative girl, she wants to only do sex with her future husband, this’s somewhat common for girls in their 20s in China. And gradually she is changed by her boyfriend, he tells her that she should be open and enjoy life, and sex is different with love, you don’t have to love the guy who you have sex with. She loves him in both inside and outside, and she believes him. She’d like to have sex with her boyfriend, though she knows he is not very serious with their relationship, it probably might be only one experienced of his. He can always goes away when he wants, and then their relationship would be over. Sometimes she struggled in her heart if she should do sex with him? I think she decided to do with him at last, for she really loves him and wants to keep nice memories with him at least. The more terrible thing is she even wants to have a baby with him, and she has the worst prepartion to raise the child by herself. What’s a crazy idea! And hopefully she realized this was unrealistic and also unfair to her baby.
    As her best friend, she told me these. I wish go luck to her, and I hope she can find her true love. Here is also a good question When it comes to relationships, is it smart to follow your heart or your head? And I hope the tragedy of Madame Butterfly will not happen in mordern.

  64. I’m a Latin-ABC who’s never had anything against white men-Chinese women relationships…until I came to Beijing. Previously, my Argentinean-Korean friend asked me if it bothered me as it bothered him. I responded in the negative. After living in Beijing for a while, I can say that I absolutely abhor seeing these types of couples now. It’s ridiculous to me to see a foreigner and a Chinese girl “dating” when they can’t even communicate their intricate inner feelings with each other, and when they do, it means sex. White men, in general (I know there are exceptions, which I do not object to), treat Chinese women nice because they want to have sex with them. To put it crassly, Chinese women, to these, become giant masturbation machines. I am not against inter-racial marriages, just intercultural bastardization. To Chinese women obsessed with westerners: are your people not good enough? if your answer is no, then you’ve turned your back on this Civilization. To Western men: do you not find masturbation to be a lot more economical and less damaging to other people’s culture?

  65. Those whities in beijing are so thankful to these chinese women not because they WANT sex, but because these are the only ones they CAN have sex. That makes these men an easy target for the gold-digger chinese women desperate to get out of poverty. Vice versa. This what people call the exchange of money and sex.

    These two types deserve each other, hiding their true natures; like these chinese women (those into money/visas) actually attracted to the old/fat/ugly/bold/poor/geeky white ones, and those whities are the regular ‘american dream’ guys who got no asian-fetish, no undesirable geeks back in home!

  66. To Willian:

    Do you really think so?
    You think you know chinese very well?
    Only prostitutes have sex for money.

    If you don’t know chinese very well, you have no rights to say that!

    And in my opinoin, one kind of people will meet the same kind of people more easily.
    Maybe that’s why you have this idea about chinese.

  67. hei long Says: June 19, 2006 at 12:23 am

    Yes I know a lot of Chinese girls, But would only make friends with them, I was always wary because my last GF was from beijing and was already married when she was with me, before she left me she told me that she was with a few other guys too at the same time, including a chinese guy that was married to a white woman, This was for fun on her part not in it for money.(I hear stories of lots of girls like this but im lucky I have not met many) But a few years later I decided I wanted to get a girl friend again, as I said I meet a lot of nice girls but it wasnt until I met my wife that I found someone I could trust, She said she does not really like lao wai as a boyfriend and She would always try to pay for everything and was very kind hearted, I knew this was the one for me and so I spent a long time showing her how Chinese a lao wai can be, Ma jiang,KTV and eating many chinese special dishes(except the fried silkworms, could not bring myself to try them).
    Her parents are very close to her, I think its diffrent in Shang Hai than in the rest of China, In my wife’s city, the girl will live with her parents until she gets married. So her parents at first really thought I was going to take her away from them and they would not see her again(I understand how they feel). But now Im married and am very happy, I get on well with her parents and even had my wedding in China. I have a 7 month old baby boy(yes every one was happy it was a boy). There are a few cultural problems mostly to do with the raising of the baby, but nothing big.

    Also to the woman who married a Chinese guy; Usually a girl who gets married to a Chinese guy will always get problems from the boys mother, because this girl is stealing away her son.

  68. Hi Zinpgh Says: June 20, 2006 at 4:51 pm

    Zinpgh i am also a Christian
    and i want to tell you that as a Christian you must not say that people that ar not Christians ar not good enof to marry, that is a muslim thing to say and a ritch class thing to say. as a Christian you must understand that you must not denie people love just becors they ar not Chistian, God loves al people even if they dont belive him, you must also open your heart enof to give love to a non Christian. im not saying that you ar not Christian becors i know you ar a Christian and i will se you as a Christian until you or God says somthing als.

    But anny way dont denie love to a girl that is not christian becors she is still your sister and still have a good soul and people that ar not Chistian will still go to Haven if they ar a kind person, renember that ok Zinpgh

    good luck with your study.

    PS im married to a half Tibaten half Chinese girl
    her parent ar open enof for me they even prefore me than her chinese x boyfriend.

    but i will say that me and my wife have werry defarent coltur
    becors she is half modern chinese and half old fasion chinese
    and i am Christian Danish
    but i belive as a christian that if you love some one all the coultur defarenses will desapirer, and i can tell the world now that i would not trade her for anny thing als in this world and i will still stay with her in heaven.
    she is not ritch or virgen or chistian
    but whay shut i care for that when she is my soulmate
    i dont care for all this things and saying in the world
    you want to joutch esother then go ahed and do that
    but i will newer take part in that kind off thing from where i com.

    yes her chinese x boyfriend wanted me to be apart of hes revangs on her.
    and often made her give in to her gilt by saying he want to kill him self.
    i think manny chinese girl dont have so mutch mind of there own becors all there life the goverment and the famely runs there life for them
    so we must understand whay some of them agt the way they do.

  69. I think a lot of Chinese people are very cynical about white men dating Chinese women because of the long history of Suzie Wong and mail-ordered bride, as well as their awareness of the racist portrayal of Chinese women as “exotic” in Western media. There is nothing wrong with this. Being fallible humans, we all have limited memory, so we’ll have to make judgments basing on broad categories and schemas. Stereotyping? Perhaps. Categorically wrong? No. So if I see a Chinese women holding hands with a white man thrice her age, I get suspicious. It’s none of my business. It’s just one of those “jesus, this is gross” moments like when you walk past a garbage can in West Philly.

  70. I’m a 46 year old single male living in Kentucky, U.S.A. I have never been to China or any other country, however I have met a Chinese girl here whom I adore, but I haven’t been able to get very close to her.

    She works in a Chinese restaurant, which is where I first met her. She is 26 years old and she is from the Fujian province ( which is where most of the recent Chinese immigrants are coming from ) . She isn’t the prettiest girl on the planet, but there is just something about the way that she carries herself that has attracted me to her. This is very hard to explain, I guess that you would just have to know her to understand where I’m coming from.

    She is a very shy girl, but polite and friendly as well. Also, she doesn’t have a very good command of the English language, but she knows how to use her limited English speaking skills to communicate. ( you will see this below in this post)

    My problem with her is this : When I try to talk to her, she just walks away. I asked one of the other Chinese girls why this girl walks away from me while I’m trying to talk to her, and her reply was ” It’s because she doesn’t know very much English” Actually, at first I didn’t buy into this excuse, but maybe I was wrong as you will see below.

    Considering the fact thst she always walked away from me while I tried to talk to her, I decided to ignore her, and that didn’t go very well either.

    She started slamming plates on to the rolling caddy that they use when they buss the tables, then she approached me with her hands grasping the edge of my table, her face right in my face, and she said in broken English ” What wrong ? You no happy ? “What she was really trying to say was ” Why are you ignoring me ” My reply ( which was probably wrong ) was ” Oh, no problem. It’s just hot outside .)

    When I try to talk to her, she walks away. When I ignore her, she is trying to talk to me.

    The next time that I went to the restaurant, I gave her a red rose. As I was trying to give it to her, she started to walk away, but then she turned around and accepted the rose and she thanked me, but then she tossed the rose onto the caddy with all of the used plates and uneaten food, which I considered to be a great matter of disrespect. ( Later, I read that giving cut flowers as a gift in China denotes death, this is where the cultural differences kick in, and anyone who says that these cultural differences are not a problem is a liar )

    At this point, I go back into my ignore this girl mode, and of course the slamming of plates takes place again. Then she went off into a corner of the restaurant and started pouting. When I presented her with her tip, she just gave me a go to hell look.

    Considering the fact that she gets angry when I ignore her, that leads me to believe that she is attracted to me. But then again. maybe I violated some Chinese cultural boundry.

    I welcome any advice.

  71. Da Xiangchang Says: August 16, 2006 at 10:55 pm

    “Considering the fact that she gets angry when I ignore her, that leads me to believe that she is attracted to me”?!! HAHAHA. I would wager she thinks you’re a weird old guy who keeps on inappropriately ogling her. My advice, dude, is you need to find a woman your own age. Start looking on Yahoo Personals and Match.com; lots of middle-aged women there. And if you don’t like middle-aged women, you can always ditch Kentucky and come to China (or better yet, Thailand); lots of young women there who’ll find you “attractive.”

  72. Da Xiangchang : I should have known that would get some sort of smart assed reply such as yours instead of some good sound advice. You don’t even know me, so why do you choose to insult me ?

    I don’t know how old you are, but if you are young, before you know it, you will be middle aged yourself. By the way, 46 years old is by no means old.

    Your reply sounds just like some e-mails that I’ve received from submissions that I’ve written on Stickman Bangkok. Perhaps you are one of the smart asses who has e-mailed me from that website.

    If you are male and young, just why are you in China ? Perhaps the western women don’t find you ” attractive ” .

    I also assume that you may be one of the many whore mongers who go to China and Thailand to engage in prostitution. Wow dude, that really makes you a ” real man “, being able to get women to have sex with you for money.

  73. Da Xiangchang Says: August 17, 2006 at 2:20 pm

    “You don’t even know me, so why do you choose to insult me?” While my answer might appear flippant, I didn’t insult you. I provided you with what I honestly think the situation is and 3 remedies: 1) forget the Chinese girl, 2) find a middle-aged woman via 3) internet dating sites. And I only said you’re “old” because from the prospective of a 20-something women, you ARE old. Personally, I don’t think a man in his 40s is old.

    “Your reply sounds just like some e-mails that I’ve received from submissions that I’ve written on Stickman Bangkok. Perhaps you are one of the smart asses who has e-mailed me from that website.” I’ve never heard of that website.

    “If you are male and young, just why are you in China ? Perhaps the western women don’t find you ‘attractive.'” Actually, I live in California. And yes, Western women definitely find me less “attractive” than developing-world women. It’s a status thing. However, it doesn’t mean I can’t get an attractive woman stateside; it’s just harder. There’s an advantage of finding a girl in the West, though: once she loves you, you KNOW she loves you for YOU. It’s harder (though, of course, not impossible) to see this in the developing world.

    “I also assume that you may be one of the many whore mongers who go to China and Thailand to engage in prostitution.” You know it! 😉 Actually, I haven’t been to either country in years. (And don’t tell me you don’t want to be one of those “whoremongers. Haha.)

    “Wow dude, that really makes you a ‘real man,’ being able to get women to have sex with you for money.” No, it doesn’t make you a “real man”; it just makes you temporarily a “real happy man”–until you get HIV, then you’re a “real f**ked-up man.” Haha.

    But in all seriousness, you have to ask yourself WHY you are infatuated with a 20-something girl you hardly know when you’re 46. I find a lot of middle-aged Western men in Asia to be rather silly, especially since one of them is a good friend of mine. He’s always saying he wants a woman to appreciate him for who he is, love him (i.e., the “TRUE LOVE” business) and how Western women are all materialistic and shallow, doesn’t understand him, etc. Except, of course, he doesn’t seem to see the fallacy here: he wants all those things in a HOT YOUNG PACKAGE. In other words, he’s just as shallow as the Western women he’s always trashing! I mean, I’ll bet you there are plenty of middle-aged, maybe pudgy, maybe menopausal, American women who are kind and nice, etc., but he has no interest in them since they’re not young and hot. Men (of all ages) need to look in the mirror, get their priorities straight, and stop making excuses for what they really want.

  74. Max,

    Reading your OP, it is evident that there are both cultural and linguistic barriers to a meaningful relationship. Please be honest with yourself. Why are you attracted to someone you can’t communicate with nor understand? She is young and probably petite, so it is natural that you would find her attractive and her shyness may make her an even more alluring alternative to plump, outspoken American women.

    She may indeed be flattered by your attentions. Ask yourself why. She is a blue-collar worker with poor English and may not have many opportunities to meet Chinese or American men who treat her with respect. However, she is young, and her English skills and her confidence will develop as she has more contact with Americans, and she may “outgrow” the older man who showed kind attention to her in the diner.

    My advice to you is to seek a woman you can understand and talk to. The dating market favors men in your age bracket, so if you open your heart and mind, you can find a companion who is right for you, and you won’t need to solicit advice from strangers on the internet.

  75. DaXiang,

    As a woman, I am so moved by your last post. Too bad you’re in California 😉

  76. Please let me explain the dating situatin in the Kentucky county where I live.
    According to the last cencus, the ratio of single men to single women was 6 men to 1 woman, not very good odds. And the quality of the few single women here is very poor. I’m talking drug addicts and just plain white trash, no matter the age group or their looks. We also have the unfortunate problem of inbreeding here ( yes, every thing that you’ve read or heard about Kentucky is true ) which produces women with emotional , mental and physical attributes that I just don’t have time to explain, actually it’s just horrible.

    To make the dating scene here even more complicated, girls tend to get married at a very young age. I often here young men in their early 20’s complaining that they can’t find a girl to date, simply because the girls get married very young.

    I live in a college town with Chinese faculty and Chinese students on campus. Then throw in the Chinese restaurants, and all of this puts me in contact with a lot of Chinese people. Let me tell you, I just adore Chinese people in general. They are by far the friendliest people that I have ever met.

    The Chinese girl that I wrote about ? The manager of the restaurant told me that she is attracted to me, and she considered the rose that I gave her to be very important to her, but she is just to shy and inexperienced with American people that she is having a hard time in dealing with the situation bewteen she and I. Considering the cultural differences and the language barrier, plus the advice that I have received on this board, she may be best left alone. But then again, in the back of my mind I can’t help but wonder if I’m letting a good one get off the hook.

    About internet dating ? It’s the same situation, same odds, 6 to 1 and the same quality of women, white trash , and this has nothing to do with looks. I ‘ve tried Match.com as well as Yahoo personals with no luck whatsoever. I’m not the lone ranger. I don’t know any men in my county who have had any luck meeting a quality woman on those sites.

    More about Yuky, the Chinese girl that I wrote about. I met her when I wasn’t even looking for a girlfriend. At the time, I was following a Chinese Human Trafficking ring involving Chinese waitresses working in Chinese restaurants, and that’s how I met her. She isn’t a victim as far as I know. All of the Chinese people working in the restaurant are family.

  77. Max,

    According to the 2000 Census, women comprised 50.9% of Kentucky’s population. Since Kentucky has a nearly 50-50 ratio, there is no way that single men could vastly outnumber single women unless Kentuckians are breaking the law by practicing polygamy.

    Moreover, if inbreeding produces women with horrible mental, physical, and emotional attributes, wouldn’t inbreeding have the same effect on men?

    As a native-born American who has lived in two Asian countries, two midwestern states, Texas, and now the east coast, I’m not buying your “they’re all drug addicts/white trash” excuse. There are good and bad people everywhere, yes, everywhere, even in some podunk town in Kentucky. Kentucky girls may marry young, but Kentucky women, like women elsewhere in America, get divorced.

    If you are Mad Max from Stickman.com, then this young Chinese waitress is not your first attempt at a relationship with a much younger Asian woman working in the service industry. If other men in Kentucky view the dating scene as you do, then this seemingly vulnerable young waitress probably gets friendly attention from a lot of middle-aged American men. Think about that, Max.

  78. Sonogi :

    Yes, you’re correct. Inbreeding does have the same effect on men, I can spot them a mile away.

    About the census you reffered to : Those results may be true about the entire state of Kentucky, or maybe the Metro areas such as Louisville or Lexington, however I speak the truth about where I live. I guess that you would have to live here to be able to understand.

    Somehow you seem to see me as some kind of dirty old man who preys on young vulnerable immigrant women. Yes, I did start going to those Chinese restaurants hoping to meet a nice girlfriend, but I just don’t understand how you see this as preying on young vulnerable women. What I haven’t written about is how I tried to assist the victims of Human Trafficking that I met in one Chinese restaurant, but this board probably isn’t the place to write about it. The traffickers, Snakeheads and Coyotees, are the ones preying on young vulnerable immigrants, not me.

  79. Hi Max,

    46 is not old either for men or women. The age difference is not a key factor for a good relationship. No matter how many middle-aged women out there, you still have the right to look for a mate from other groups. The thing is if it is love, true love, no other conditions involved.

  80. Laosan

    Thank you so much for your kind reply.

  81. Sonagi

    What difference does it make whether she is a ” blue collar worker” or working in the ” service industry ” ?

    I would bet that if I had posted that I was hitting on A 26 year old girl named ” Mary Lou ” who was working a a waitress in ” Bubba’s Country Kitchen ” or in one of the local factories , you wouldn’t have responded the way that you did.

    It’s a well known fact that a lot of Anglo American Women are attracted to African American men as well as Hispanic men, and a lot of these men are ” blue collar ” or work in the ” service industry ” , so what’s the difference ?

    Consider this : Yuky is a 26 year old adult of legal age and far from a ” vulnerable ” Asian girl. If I were 30 and she were 10, I could understand your argument.

    She probably respects me because I don’y say ” me so horny, me love you long time, no boom boom soul brother, soul brother too boo koo ” ,which is the number 1 complaint that Asian girl have here. They are assulted with these rude and racial comments daily.

    And for your information, I have never hit on her. Yes, I think that she is an absolute sweetheart. Yes, I gave her a rose, so what’s wrong with that ? That doesn’t mean that I’m preying on a vulnerable young immigrant who is a” blue collar “worker working in the ” service industry “, so get over it.

  82. Going to Chinese restaurants to hit on the waitresses, that is classic!

    I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a weird crush on a much younger waitress, it’s that you seem to be aiming at the first young Chinese waitress you can get. It really comes across as some power issue, with wild stereotyping to boot!

    Looking up cultural issues like “oh it’s cut flowers so that’s why she’s angry” is putting too much import on small superstitions. Of course any reasonable person would be able to look past any such thing.

    Her reactions to you are ignoring you, giving stink-eye, and being pissed off, so it might be time to find another Suzie Wong.

  83. Here we go again. I by no means have ever hit on this girl. Yes, I’m attracted to her, and no, I’m not infatuated with her as Da Xiangchang wrote.

    Jeff: you may be correct. Maybe I need to find another Suzie Wong. Come to think about it, this girl displays some of the same characteristics as American women who have a mental illness. The Chinese treat her in a ” special ” manner, which is much the same as we Americans would treat someone who is mentaly retarded. I guess that it took some time for me to figure that out.

    Single middle aged American women where I live ? Virtually non -existant. This is a ” Married with Children ” town, and the few single middle aged women here are ” White Trash “, plain and simple.

    There is no middle class here. We have the upper middle to upper class people, and in this class of people, there is no divorce. There are a lot of decent middle aged women in this group, however if they were to get a divorce, it would mean loss of social status for them.

    Then we have the inbred, white trash lower class. There are a lot of divorces in this group, and often the woman is shacked up with another man just days after she leaves her husband, and the man does just the same. My stupid boss actually married one of these white trash sluts. She was shacked up with another man just one week before she married my boss. All of us at work told him, but he was too stupid ( desparate ) to listen. After they were married, he bought both she and her daughter a car . The marriage only lasted one month. She got what she wanted, left my boss and shacked up with another man the next day. This hag doesn’t have to pay a dime for rent or a car payment. This story repeats itself day in and day out where I live, so I think that I’ll pass on the available middle aged American women who live here.

    A note for American women: The single American women who live here are nothing more that men with boobs and a vagina. If I choose to date them, I might as well be gay ! ( this story repeats itself all over America ). I’m all for equal rights for women, you know, voting rights, equal pay and opportunity for advancement in the work place, ect. However somehow during this equal rights for women process, American women not only are trying to be like a man, but they are trying to be a man. American women, why are you too prould to be feminine ? Hats off to the Chinese women in this reguard. They are not afraid to be feminine.

    So guess where I’m going ? You bett your ass that I’m going to have Chinese for lunch tomorrow ! I may not find a girlfriend there, however I will be surrounded by Chinese women who are prould to be feminine ! Perhaps you American hags should learn from them !

  84. I don’t know if I would consider all white women to be stupid skank sluts. There would seem to be a lot of exceptions.

    Subservient Chinese women? Is this a middle American stereotype? I can’t even imagine. Maybe if they don’t speak English they can’t put up a good fight, but that’s about as far as it goes.

  85. Max,

    You’ve hijacked this thread long enough.

    If you came here looking for advice, you have already gotten it. Best of luck to you.

  86. Hi

    I dont know if someone would respond to this or maybe give me some opinions, but i really need help.
    I have been dating a Chinese guy for the past two years now. In the begining it was very difficult cause his our boss (whose Taiwanese) was against our relationship, and told me things like “hes only after PR”. and “he has no money so why am i with him?” and they talked behind my back aswell.
    Luckly we managed to stay together, and decided to leave the Company.
    But soon after that our problems started.
    When we firts started dating he said that he loved me and that he would marry me one day, and i believed him, But as soon as he started working for this new Korean Company, i noticed that he stayed out late at night….telling me that he has to go out with hes boss its a culture thing!!!
    and theres also phone calls late at night……..i cant understand when hes speaking but its the way he speaks that i know its a chinese woman, He even told me that he doesnt want to marry now cause in his culture they only marry when they turn 30 or something?????is this even true
    We had so many fights over the same things, he always tells me that we are too different, but why is he still with me?
    I met him when he was very poor and when he started hes business, every thing went downhill.
    So my Q is…….. Did he only use me as a stepping stone, and is it true that Chinese only come to a Country to make money and then go back to China.
    Oh also hes Mom REALLY wants to meet me and asked him last Dec to take me with him but he said that he doesnt have money, and now its that time of the year that hes going to go back again and as usual he has an excuse, so im just wondering if hes maybe embarrased to take me to his mother.
    Please any comments or anything that can help cause i cant speak to any of my friends they dont understand.

  87. A 46 years old Kentucky man hitting on a waitress in Chinese restaurant – is that for real or some kind of setup?

    I’m a 25 yrs old asian woman from a much less imporverished country, and there is no way I or any women my age here would ever date a senior like him.
    I guess being from fujian, underpaid and immmigrant really changes your mind though. Such is beyond my imagination, as the thought of screwing
    some white guy looking twice older than your father (yes white men do look that older).

    So, stop complaining how people point out she is a ‘waitress’ or ‘ in service industry’ – you are benefiting from that!

  88. Elise,

    I lived in Korea several years, and I can confirm that in Korean culture, it is expected that colleagues socialize together and with business partners over dinner and drinks until late in the evening. I hate to tell you this, but this sort of gathering often takes place in hostess bars known as “room salons” in Korea. Intercourse does not take place on premises, but there may be fondling. Korean women don’t like it, but they turn a blind eye.

    As for the general intentions of Chinese men towards foreign women, I say from my own and others’ experiences in Korea and China that relationships anywhere between any two people may be built on mutual trust and respect or they may be weak bonds created by superficial attraction or need.

    Listen to your heart and trust your instinct. Have a heart-to-heart conversation and if things still don’t feel right, it’s time to move on. Breaking up with a boyfriend is a lot cheaper and easier than divorcing a foreign spouse, especially if there are children.

  89. Dear eee, I have almost forgot why I have come to this thread, but I do share the same experience because just minutes ago, I read the stuff you post, and I felt it amusing to read Max’s post.

  90. I’m in a similar situation. I’m an American working in China and I recently met a seemingly very kind Chinese man who wants to date me. He’s several years older than me which is fine, but I am concerned about his intentions. I haven’t had a whole lot of interaction with him as he works in another city and only returns home every few weeks. We’ve been emailing and text messaging quite a bit though so we’re not complete strangers. We communicate exclusively in Chinese and so far, I’ve been impressed with his character and his kind personality and am eager to get to know him better but granted, it’s still early.

    My friends here have been clueing me into the terrible reputation chinese men have in treating women and have been quick to remind me that part of the allure and the reasons for his kindness may very well be the fact that I’m a tall, blond foreign woman. As an optimist, I’m hesitant to simply dismiss his affections as nothing more than ploys to get me to bed because he seems genuine and it would take a complete asshole to not be honest about this stuff. However I am growing ever more skeptical and am wondering if there are any other foreign women out there who might have had a similar experience, either good or bad.

  91. Jacy, the only thing I can tell you, is that this is all about individuals.

    I’ve lived with my (Chinese) boyfriend for 2 years now. He’s a caring and protective man, and treats me with endless tenderness. His family loves me, and I love his family.

    I am very glad I didn’t pay attention to my own prejudices, nor to the negative comments I got from some of my relatives/friends. I just gave it a try, and decided for myself.

    Mine is a lucky story (we will marry next year). I hope yours will be too.

  92. Most Chinese men I know who are married to white women, usually have a young chinese girl friend(er nai) that he tells “oh my foreign wife does not understand our culture, Im going to leave her…blah blah.” Its not out of the ordinary for him. This sounds like whats happening to me. If he works for a Korean company and he speaks chinese on the phone late at night you know something does not add up. Better confront him.

  93. David Webb Says: October 15, 2006 at 11:44 pm

    John,

    3) You are lucky
    2) Yes, Shanghai is different
    1) Have you ever stepped outside Shanghai? Chinese people are more similar to each other in their opinions than people in the West; I am not sure how you could live in China for 6 years without realising that. Yes, and I think democracy would allow an opening up of all kinds of cultures and subcultures, allowing things to change, but it can be suffocating how similar all the (identikit) opinions I hear are.

    I think most Chinese parents – most by a very, very large margin – would have the reaction that you found in that blog on the Internet. Maybe Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou are different? I am tempted to raise the “real China” debate over whether Shanghai is the “real China”, but it obviously is real and is China!!

  94. You know what? This is stupid. This whole debate. Because love doesn’t care whether your parents agree, whether your culture agrees, or whether your best friend agrees. Sure, they’re factors, but there are so many things in life more important than that. I live in China, work here, and yes, date here. I’m from the US. I’m white and male. I live in Beijing. I speak Mandarin pretty well. Well enough to translate. Take those for what they’re worth. Well enough to get subtlety and sarcasm and make jokes about conservativism. And I’ll tell you this: I’d never date anyone who didn’t agree with me about that.

    Mr. Lif said that “culture exists to keep us from meeting each other”. He’s not the only one who thinks so. There are tons of Chinese people, and people from other places, who align their values the same way. Unless you think so, and can find a partner who thinks so, you shouldn’t date/marry/fuck someone outside your culture. It should NEVER be an issue in love. EVER.

    I got lucky, I guess. I’ve found a woman who knows the ins and outs of US culture and loves it just as much as she loves her own Manchurian heritage. She makes as much as I do (which is mid-range for us laowai) and insists on paying the bill, so often that I’ve hardly had to spend anything when I spend time with her. She’s an animator and does Hollywood movies. I’m living with a Korean/Chinese model who grew up in San Fransisco and dates a French man. My best friend is a tiny woman from Changsha who sells makeup, has hideous English (12-o-clock for 12 years old), and whose sense of humor consists of “you fucked WHAT” and whose swearing would horrify Stone & Parker, and most of you men would give your nuts to fuck her, too. I know for a fact that there are Chinese women out there who wouldn’t have visa-bearing assholes at all, and those are the ones I choose to spend my time with. And there are a LOT of them. I don’t think it’s luck, though. I think it’s an understanding that culture shouldn’t matter. If culture is an issue for you, get the hell out of your rut and get a life, and that goes for Chinese and non-, male and female, alike.

    In the end, love wants to happen, and where the fuck you’re from shouldn’t get in the way. If it does, you’re a breeder and deserve what you get.

  95. What started out as a interesting thread, quickly turned into judgemental bashing.
    Its an anthropological statement, there exists more differences within one culture than exists between two seperate cultures.
    Humans are racists, its a human problem.
    People fall in love, love and logic are polar opposite.
    Good luck everyone.

  96. Anonymous Says: May 19, 2007 at 4:17 pm

    John:

    I have had a very similar experience to the girl in your post, however it is reversed for me. I am a girl dating a Chinese man, and his parents have been anything but welcoming. They have tried to control every action and decision in his life (successfully, most of the time) well into his adulthood. What’s worse, is that their brainwashing has created a young man who has little self confidence or will to break away from him oppressing parents. You are very lucky to have found such a welcoming family, because I can tell you from experience that it is not common. I love my boyfriend very much–but his Chinese upbringing has created many more hardships than good. It is very standard to find closed-minded and controlling Chinese parents, unfortunately. However, love knows no bounds, and we must fight for our happiness! We just have to hope that those who are not as lucky as your girlfriend can find the strength to stand up for their own lives.

  97. 东南罗 Says: May 30, 2007 at 12:49 pm

    Zinpgh: I know this is an ancient post, and probably people are no longer reading it… but just thought to give my 2 cents.

    Personally, i think you should drop your idea of finding a Chinese girl (or, at least, of specifically looking for a Chinese one). Some of the reasons i can think of would be:

    1)-you don’t speak Chinese, and you are not a highly qualified “foreign expert”, so that probably rules out the option that you would live in China with her. That leaves the option that you bring her with you to the US.

    2)-you said you are “poor” – i don’t know what that means, but, if it means you make less than “able to provide for a family of 2, above statewide poverty level” or so, for the state you live in, then, you won’t be able to bring her to the US as a spouse. I don’t know the specific legislation, but I am pretty sure it is something like that.
    I definitely disagree with the idea that “most girls look for rich men” – however, it is normal for them to expect a reasonably easy life, at least somewhat easier than the one they currently have as single girls. Nobody wants to move to a new place, far away, with no family, friends etc, and besides that, face financial problems comparable, or more serious, to the ones they have now…
    You said “I don’t really have the means to go to China” – I suppose that means, to go to live there, not just to visit. You definitely have to go to visit her there (assuming you meet her online or through an agency) as you have to see each other in person, at least once, if you want to get her a fiancée US visa.

    3)-if you are a “hard line” Christian, as you seem to be, I can imagine some problems occurring in a relationship with a Chinese girl – and I am not referring to sex, faithfulness etc. I am thinking more of the different opinions you two might have on daily life issues. Your ideas, of what is “right”, “fair”, “just” etc, given your American religious background, might be quite
    different from what she sees as right, fair and so, as a result of her life experience in China.

    I don’t know what a Chinese girl or her parents might think, but, living in the Bible Belt myself, I got the chance to see such issues, in situations where “cultural differences” (an overrated term, I know) were less than the one you are looking to get into.

    John: truly appreciate your blog! Not only I found a lot of useful information here, but I also really liked the general tone of your posts.

  98. Hmmm
    I am in Ch 6 years+
    Chinese understend “waigorn”, like cash machine, and all other things what going on aroud us in China, is just a “diferent packing” of same thing, or “variation “on same thing…
    Did “colecting of money” is in packing of “love”, “frenship”, “pure prostitution” or “busines partneshep” it is all about money, and nothing more…
    I was angry in the begining, thinking that Chinese do this things because we are forigners…But, the trough is even more trible, thay do same , and much, much bad things between themself… So This is Asia, we all have diferent vuepoint, and background, coming here, and diferent understend the things. For me here in Asia, it is like big “red light” house… We are all in, and it is good from time to time go out….
    Do not forget this facts:
    80-90% of my friends coming in China, simply devorce, or leave their girlfriends from “homeland”, and go in “trap” in “love” with Chinese girls…”Oh You are wary hansam, or You are smart, or You are clever, or You are so nice”, or You are so strong…” are tipical sentence, Chinese girls regulary say evry day to You, and do things in a Your bad, what Your wife never do to You, ha ha ha…. And many of us simply do not understend what is going…. On other side, thare is only 1:10000 case, when Western girl foll in love with Chinese boy, or simply I do not know any case western woman devorse, to may marid Chinese man!!!!
    Do You know the answer and reason why???
    Sory for my English, I am not ntiv spiker, but I think You who red this understend what I want to say…

  99. A Chinese son-in-law will dutifully carry the load and support all of his extended family. This is why Chinese society is still so strong and stable.

    White men are unreliable and think only of themselves first. Many are even still supported by their parents as grown adults…instead of vice-versa. This is why American society is so fragmented with a 50% divorce and 30% single mom rate. Why do you think all these White men left the US for China to begin with? They can’t hack it in the US anymore…and ironically want the same Old World culture elsewhere…that they destroy when they get there.

    Who would you prefer as a son-in-law? Or a citizen of your country?

  100. Hey Rebecca, whether you have lived much in China or not isn’t really relevant, but I came to China after graduation to continue to study the language and to teach at a University to kinda see what goes on in China. Not every guy is there because they can’t hack it in the states, heck I’d even guess some are there as whoops almost slipped the M word…and some come to see how business works here,, but I”ve found in China an unreal amount of “young adults” still supported by their parents and extended family cause there society doesn’t let them make money. I had to work starting at 14 knowing that I’d have to pay for college on my own. Name one chinese citizen that paid for their own college and I’d tell u they musta been playing hooky from their insane middle schools 😉 and with mcdonalds paying 4 yuan an hr they still havea long way to go… What happens is that peope see America from the coastal perspective wheither it be LA’s America or NewYorks america,,no offense to the coastal residents, i’m from philly myself but lived a lot in the midwest… real American values and life are preserved in the Midwest and the south… 50% divorce does happen but not in most towns, just the heavily populated and the ones that get polled,, hence the coasts comment…

  101. I haven’t read all of this, just the first bit as it’s gotten extremely long and I have class soon so sorry if I repeat a question. I was just wondering what you all think of this. I’m a foreigner from the States and have a Chinese fiance from the middle of nowhere Hunan. We both live together in Dalian. Last year was my one and only time (so far) that I’ve been to visit his parents. He didn’t go with me, just me by myself, which was probably a lot easier for me in the end. They are extremely traditional and expect me to follow a certain way of doing things to some extent while I’m at their home. My fiance is very unlike his parents in that he is extremely modern. He’s a fashionable hairdresser who owns a salon in Dalian and has been to many different hairdressing academies around Asia. When I went to visit his parents last year we had known each other for a long time but we weren’t engaged yet. They immediately accepted me as their daughter-in-law once I told them that I was interested in their son. It was overwhelming. Every place we went they would say “This is my daughter-in-law” so proudly. My fiance told me I had made them fall in love with me.

    My question is that I have found that Chinese parents often accept foreign women much more easily than foreign men. I have many other foreign teachers that are my friends here in Dalian who are with Chinese women (either getting married soon or just dating) and their parents-in-law are much less accepting than my boyfriend’s. Does anyone have any ideas why this might be? Is this really the case or just what I have experienced?

  102. I’m french-canadian, white and very handsome, male, living and working in China
    married with chinese lady and all I can say to you ladies and g-men:

    1. The feeling I had when meeting my parents in law for the first time was that I actually had met them 10 yrs back and I was making them a regular , not out of the ordinary visit, that’s how nice they were.

    2. My wife spent so much money with me before and after we’ve got married and she never changed, the same serious, trustfull and loving( I should say, we are the tipical handsome and loving hubby, average looking wife madly in love with her lao gong).

    3. Wherever I went( without my wife) chinese women jumped on me big time, didn’t care I am married, lucky with me I didn’t follow up, I just don’t wanna cheat on my wife, she doesn’t diserve that, I fear if I would do so and she ends up finding out she would be heartbroken.

    4. As ar as i’ve heard, the chinese parents are nice to the foreigners and when it comes to white, tall and nice looking white women married with chinese men, they are treated as real queens by everybody! Fact!

    5. I had hardly seen chinese women or men with colored foreigners like nigs or indians or you name it, just saw one colored dude with a chinese

    lady, very skinny and the way she was walking was proving that her left leg was shorter than the right one,

    Overall China is just beautiful and its people simply the best,
    Cheers,

  103. Robert, you are writing a fiction, aren’t you?

  104. Dear Hai,

    I don’t exagerate is just telling out of my own experience, the fact that I look good matters, the beautiful individuals get easier in life, but has to do also with my attitude, I love chinese people, happy to interact with them, I’m kind and considerate and all these add up. My parents in law’s attitude changed a bit after me and my wife got married( registration at the city hall plus traditional wedding, like my wife says, we are married from all points of view,hihi), they changed, as I was saying, by fearing that she will belong only to me and I will buid up a bridge between them and they’re daughter which I didn’t.
    While walking the city streets with my wife it happened many times that people were saluting me, showing they’re friendship to me, in fact a foreigner, having a chinese wife doesn’t automatically make me chinese.
    Talking about that 46 yrs old dude from Kentucky, we have my wife’s friend who’s 38 and single and she needs the love of a nice man, if he’s white, looks good,slim not fat, is gentle with a decent sitation maybe we can hook him up with her;

    Cheers,

  105. I am a thirty year old American living in a small town in North East China, about to marry a Chinese woman with an open mind yet very traditional parents. My fiance’ is a modern woman full of strength and intelligence, yet she will fold over like a toddler when her parents’ opinion of me comes into play. I have had to deal with a thousand things the average American man would not when it comes to the in-laws, but I am in China and when in China you have to move with the water. I’ve had half a dozen family members show up on my doorsetp uninvited expecting to stay for a week, all the while dropping hints about my buying new washing machines and cars. I’ve had the children of the family nickname me “it”. I get laughed at and stared at when I eat dinner, and when I’m around the conversation inevitably turns to all the evil bullshit that the rural people of the northeast have been fed when it comes to Americans. Half of my future wife’s family think it is good she is marrying me because I’m a foreigner and therefore rich (I am not) and the other half say that her “chances” in life will be lessened if she marries me. Her mother has always been kind and funny, seeing me as a kind of odd development in the family rather than an actual son-in-law. Her father is dead set against our marriage, and this is a man (former Red Guard) who is used to having his commands followed.

    The thing that you have to do when dating and marrying a person from small town mainland China is first realize that this society plays by the rules of all closed societies that have only one recent history to celebrate, and that history not being something particularly good. I am from the American rural south, a place where blacks and whites have mixed for a hundred years yet always with that spectre of hatred that comes from nothing more than white men with no self confidence and terrible guilt over what they’ve done to African-Americans, and black men who can’t curb their pride when it comes to playing by the rules of white society. Of course I have known a few cases (there are always exceptions) where this was not the case. Things became easy for me in China when I simply began thinking of myself as an African-American man dating a white woman in my native south. Yes, my color is different from hers. My culture is different and my parents have different ideas, but a relationship between myself and this woman is made of love and no parents what so ever are going to stand in the way of our happiness. Once I made it clear to her family that we would go it alone if need be they backed off considerably.

    Finally, I sat down with my mother-in-law who said that her sisters were against our marriage, and I told her with finality that I was not going to spend the rest of my life with her sisters and therefore did not care what they thought. This did not go over well, the showing of pride. When asked if I was going to “steal” the girl away to America I said that I would not steal anyone and was in fact not going to have my father buy my fiance from her father in a reverse dowry which is the custom. THAT went over like a lead balloon, the idea that I wasn’t going to purchase her. I told them that if my wife wants to go to America I will take her and it will be our decision and not mine and not theirs, ours. As the youngest woman in the family she is seen as property, the ownership of which extends in different measure to every other member of the family, especially the men, though its the women who seem to be raising the fuss.

    Finally I suppose the only advice I might give to others is that there is a line you have to draw, far behind the one you would in your own culture, but a line just the same. If the Chinese woman or man’s family disown their own child because they were audacious enough to marry outside the race (it is a race problem and NOT a cultural one, as has been said before in this forum) then that is their problem.

    Also, to the woman earlier who talked about the divorce rate in America and American men who could not “hack it” in their own country, I would ask that she have a look at the state of marriage in China, a contract more than anything depending on money rather than love. The majority of Chinese marriages I know of consist of nothing more than an agreement between roommates not to sleep with anyone else, an agreement which is often broken. If the male dominated Chinese government would ever grant women more rights in a divorce then the majority of Chinese men would find themselves penniless and alone. Its also a fact that many American men I meet are here did not fit into American society, including myself. I could have very easily hacked it back home but just didn’t want to, and the old world culture of China is amazing to me yet it does not allow love to happen.

  106. @Neil, that is unfortunate that your wife to be has such parents, Id say its the whole village thing, If she was from the city then things would be different. When I got married to my north eastern wife I was unemployed, My wife’s mother said it was up to my wife who she marries and there was nothing about buying anybody, In fact they like to spend money on us when it is clear it should be the other way around. But I know what China was like in the past and maybe a few of these old ideas still exist. Good Luck.

  107. I’m a 48 YO German-American (saying I’m Caucasian and lumping me together with other Europeans is like say that Hmong and Laotians are the same, which would be an insult to them both, not that I’m particularly proud to be of German origin), who has seldom dated. I find many Chinese women attractive (even eat a lot in Chinese fanguan and try to get to know the people). Here’s what I see from my perspective.

    American women scare me. When I was a young man, guys wanted cheap, quick sex, and the girls were the ones who kept it clean. When I began teaching high school in the 80’s, I noticed a sudden change. Suddenly, it was the girls who just wanted to have fun and the guys seemed to be more about relationships. Now, as I live and work in a University setting, I see the boys being totally manipulated by the girls, and it’s the girls who want cheap, meaningless sex. It’s all about sex buddies and partying from both sides now.
    I am a Christian, so, yeah, free love it not for me. I also would like to have children, so, yeah, I’d like to find someone a little younger, since most women my age have either had a family and don’t want another one or they can’t have one. So, it’s not easy for me to even find a girl who fits my criteria, much less one with whom I am morally and ethically matched.
    Have I thought about dating women from other countries? Yes. The problem as I see it can be labelled a cultural or racial issue, but really it’s an issue of finding a like-minded person. We Christians like to say “equally yoked”, and it involves a lot of things, including philosophical/theological ideas. So, how does one go to all the trouble of looking through dating sites for that someone who seems to possess what one seeks, then go through all the language and cultural barriers to really get to know that person, THEN cross the religion isssue (and, yes, I love non-Christians, but refer to the “equally yoked” issue). I’ve decided that it’s incumbent upon me to learn the language and culture of any girl I might want to know. (To date I’ve worked on nine languages, BTW.)

    Yes, love is a wonderful thing and can conquer mountains, but loving someone means you’re going to put up with all the negatives as well, including families and cultural stress. Of course, true love would not put the person through something that would greatly pain them. And true love would not take advantage of a person to fulfill a personal need.

    And now, for the most bizarre of all — I promised to move to China if Hillary is elected. So I’m learning Chinese, and the culture. And I wouldn’t mind a Chinese wife. And the lady who owns the Chinese fanguan keeps giving me pointers on how to get a zhonguo airen. And if I go, I would teach English, as it was my college major and I have a Master’s degree and could teach in the daxue. But, I could stay a maximum of two years if I do that. So, I don’t want to marry a Chinese girl in China and force her to choose me or her life. If I marry a Chinese girl already in the USA, though, maybe that would be OK.

    And, yes, age is relative, as I’m in better shape than most of the college boys.

  108. Why can’t American men man up and re-assert authority over women in their own countries…than flee across the world like rats off a sinking ship…that they helped sink themselves???

  109. “Why can’t American men man up and re-assert authority over women”
    Kwest Shen, they have laws against that now. 🙂

  110. so this is a very interesting thread. I am living in shanghai and have been dating a shanghai girl for the last 2 years. i have read many posts on shanghai girls and that they can be clingy/visa attracted etc….so maybe someone can relate to this experience:
    -i have never met her family…although she has told me that her mother knows. I believe that, but i have always asked to join her with her family for dinner or something…but she refuses. She says that we should be more serious…or get married then we can be with her family. This sounds a little silly…but any opinions out there on general shanghai family traditions like this? Also, i never really go out with her friends, she likes either to be with me and no-one else. For me, this is odd, as i have always wanted her friends to be mine and vice versa.
    -this girl is very motivated, career orientated and independent…so much so that i feel like last priority. in fact, she moved to europe to study and left me in shanghai. Is this normal for shanghai girls to be so driven..?
    -she always seems to be busy doing something…but all the planning is done by her family. It almost seems like she is doing everything the family wants and nothing of what she wants. she listens also very much to her aunts and mother…almost to the exclusion of everything else. I dont know again if this is so normal…i am afraid if we continue the relationship and starts to become more “free” from her parents that she will rely on me for alot of her planning.
    -she has never pressured me to marry (other than the comment about meeting the family) but i know she would, if asked. The problem is that with all this cultural/family differences (that i perceive today) maybe it would be hard for her to leave China and come with me back to the US.

    please feel free to comment on this as i am at a lost to explain this behaviour as cultural or something i should be worried about.

  111. Abstract Says: April 22, 2008 at 6:19 am

    I’m Chinese, but I grew up in Vancouver. While I have a lot to say on this subject, I’ll distill my comments into three basic points for now:

    1. Get real Chinese friends. That resolves ninety percent of the above problems.

    If you have Chinese friends (and real friends by the way, who take your side), then they can tell you which girls (or guys, if you’re female) are worthwhile.

    Furthermore, having close Chinese friends can go a long way to convince your potential parents-in-law that you’ve adapted to Chinese culture and are committed to marrying into a Chinese family.

    And lastly, Chinese friends can introduce you to worthwhile girls (or guys, if you’re femalel).

    1. Many above commentators complain that some Chinese parents discourage their children from marrying expatriates.

    It’s not hard to understand why – if you make a brief scan through the above comments. Some of the above comments are very insulting toward Chinese women and Chinese people in general. Not to speak of a total absence of commitment to understand and adapt to Chinese culture.

    Why would you expect any Chinese father to let you marry his daughter – if you aren’t sympathetic toward China and Chinese people, if you don’t respect Chinese culture, and if you don’t respect his family?

    I’m surprised no one stood up and defended the honour of Chinese women. While most Westerners in China are noble, good-hearted people (I can personally testify to this), they were conspicuously absent among the above commentators.

    By the way (and this applies to guys everywhere) – a girl’s father should always take priority over her love interest. The amount of love and effort a father invests in his daughter is immeasurable. Yes, I know all you guys are thinking, “hey, I’m a good guy too, so why shouldn’t she put me first?” Well, being a good guy ain’t enough. There’s such a thing as human decency, you know.

    You expect to be first – just coz you’ve known her for a few months, a couple of hours a week? What the hell are you thinking?

    Question time: 1. Have you ever brought gifts for her parents? 2. Are you familiar with her family’s traditions and heritages? 3. Do you actually want to get to know her family (or are you just playing along, hoping to pass)?

    If you answer no to any of these, you have some self-examination to do.

    1. Those commentators who insulted Chinese women are fools.

    Chinese women are the most loyal and generous. I met my first girlfriend on vacation in Beijing. When I ran out of money half way through, she paid for the rest of my expenses, including expensive gifts.

    And Chinese women often treat me to dinner. This happens whether I’m in Canada or in China, and whether they’re old friends or new friends. Actually, just two days ago, I met a Zhuhai girl at Lan Kwai Fong. After we finished our drinks, she treated me to a midnight meal (xiaoye).

    And I still have one standing invitation to a dinner treat the next time I go to Beijing, and several standing invitations to drinks in Hong Kong.

    As everyone knows, Chinese women are the most beautiful women in the world. They are also passionate, loyal, tough, and gracious.

    The fact that the above commentators were unable to meet worthwhile girls in China show that they are chumps. And then, being chumps, they project their resentment onto womankind in general and Chinese women in particular.

    Whenever my Canadian friends visit me in China, they are always well-mannered, respect Chinese customs, and incessantly praise the diverse superior virtues of Chinese women. And so I’m happy to introduce them to my Chinese women friends, or to help them talk to women at bars.

    I know that most Westerners in China are like my Canadian friends. Unfortunately, internet discussions are dominated by buffoons and jackasses.

    When the guest is appreciative and the host is hospitable, then everyone is happy. People who lack manners should learn manners at home before travelling abroad.

    Parting comments

    Heaven responds to sincerity. May pure-hearted individuals – whatever their nationality, wherever they come from – everyone find true love and live in lasting happiness.

    As for all chumps, fools, jerks, and jackasses out there – there’s no free lunch in life. To get money, you have to work. To get good grades, you have to study. If you want lasting romance and an amazing woman, you have to invest time and effort. This includes adapting to her culture, serving her parents, befriending her relatives and friends, etc.

  112. Future-In-Law Says: August 14, 2008 at 7:34 am

    One way to find out of they’re just dating you for a green card is to tell them you plan on living in China for the rest of your life. If she jumps ship then you have your answer.

    I plan on moving to central China, working as a teacher, and staying there for as long as the Gov will let me.

  113. i have been dating with my boyfriend almost a year now,and since i told my parents that i am dating with a white guy my famil totally thinks i am a “kinda of whore”. my mom always acts like im 12 years old and i dont know anything about anything bcos my mom never gives the right to try to change her mind…about the world or the way she looks at things.i even tell her that its 2008 now not 1970’s but seems it will never work and her mind always stuck in 70’s. all my mom knows is going out playing majiang every afternoon and complaning my dad is cheating on her. basicly her life is messed up and sounds shes trying to keep me down that i am only 20.
    i remember once i was hanging out with my girl friend and we were planing to go to a spanish restaurant on friday night but my mom was so suspicious that she followed us. my friend was asking me while we were walking on the street if my mom would really follow us all the way to the restaurant? i didnt know how to respond.finally we had to cancel the plan. its a friday night,and i stayed at home watching the stupid chinese tv till 11 pm,and she went out playing majiang,while shes playing she jept calling my home phone just for checking out if i was really staying at home.
    sometimes she ask my fiancee(yes,i believe my boyfriend is a superman cos he can totally ignore my mom’s crazy atitude)ridiculious questions that make me wanna kill myself and he doesnt know how to respond. i feel really weird hopeless whatever….why chinese parents has to be like this? am i not normal or they just being so…chinese??!!!!
    i guess once my fiancee and i leave china they probably find out that they were wrong and they need open their eyes a little. and i love my fiancee.
    if anyone of you wants to exchange opions you can e-mail me,mokaxiu@gmail.com i really hate the way chinese parents treating their kids sometimes

  114. I’m an American guy going back China to propose to my Chinese girlfriend. Her folks live in a rural village in the Fujian province. I’ve already met her parents but they thought I would never return so soon (3 months later) and her aunt’s and uncle’s have supposedly said some “bad things” about me.

    I should feel guilty, but I find the drama to be hilarious. I basically said to my parents, “mom, dad, I’m getting married to a Chinese girl” and they essentially said, “well, ok whatever floats your boat.” I am already filling out the petition papers right now and I will graduate college in several months.

    Her mother has been trying to win me over ever since my first visit, but I think I gave a bad impression on her drunkard father who happens to beat to his wife frequently. He is the one telling her that her aunts and uncles have been saying bad things. I am afraid her family is trying to ostracize her now because it appears she was just having fun with an American. Her father refuses to believe that I am actually coming back in a couple weeks from now.

    I know some of you posters have a lot of valuable experience in this area. My question is, what should I do to win over her father and these aunts/uncles? I don’t speak the language and she isn’t very willing to interpret a conversation. Obviously I failed the first time at doing this, but it wasn’t my goal to win them over. I didn’t bother to drink or converse with her brothers or her father. Her father was badly injured recently so I feel sorry for the guy. Maybe I’ll buy him some wine to bury the hatchet.

  115. i cannot and will not comment on many of the negative thiings i read on this site (i read them all) but i can say i found love in china and everything has gone perfect. i am a 50 year old white male (and offer no apologies for that) and my wife is 42. i am quite in touch with my wife and have no questions. yes this is my second marriage but not due to divorce (my first wife of 20 years died in 1999). my chinese in laws are fantastic people. my wife’s extended family are fantastic people. my wife’s friends are fantastic people. i own my home in usa and my wife owns her own home in chongqing (we call each other’s homes our homes. we plan to live in china later on in life. the only family disagreements i have witnessed between the entire family happened when i fell ill once in china, the whole family was arguing on how to give the best care to me and make sure i was comfortable. i do not now nor have i ever had the china doll fantasy over my wife. in fact i always enjoy doing things for her and her for me. i do not shun american women i was married to one until she died, my wife. i have gained a lovely “brilliant” daughter through my marriage also. after about one year of my marriage to her mother she approached me one day and asked me uncle may i call you my father? i was very happy to accept her as my daughter.
    i tell everyone about my good experience because of all the people on this post who are looking for wife/husband. and in all due respect if you feel someting is not right then you should ask that person and weigh it out yourself. if its not right then you go!!!! while it is true there are practices in chinese customs that may be different they are no different than customs of other cultures. i enjoy and respect all of it. to those of you who question it and/or have problems with it i suggest you go try your luck at an american truckstop to find that special person. (i will pay for your cheeseburger and apple pie). oh yes i am christian and my wife is buddhist. my wife is quite happy with her religion and i do not look to change her.
    anyway this post seeks no answers because me, my wife and daughter are enjoying our family and our lives. good luck every one.

    brian

  116. I just want to say something to all you older foreigners in China, please quit giving the stink-eye to any young foreigners you come across at malls or airports. This happens to me every time I visit China and I refrain from doing this to others. It makes you seem psychotic and hypocritical. It’s not like Chinese people are going to notice your gesture and think:

    “oh, look over there at that 60 year old American with a 30 year old Chinese girlfriend, he’s giving what appears to be the stink-eye to that 24 yr old American with a 25 yr old Chinese fiancee. Well, he must have a lot of concern over the moral values of China.. la la la!!!”

    First of all, you accomplish nothing by this, you could look like Brad Pitt and 90% of the Chinese people will still be worrying about their OWN LIVES, not you. Second, if you’re an elder man and you get offended by seeing a young couple then you seriously need to reevaluate your life and ask yourself the following:

    Why am I marrying someone 15 to 30 years my junior?

    Am I exploiting women by forcing a young woman to take my wrinkly old pecker for the rest of my life until I am so old I need diapers?

    Does her happiness really even matter to me?

    Am I such hot stuff that my Asian wife really enjoys my geriatric body or is that just a FANTASY in my head?

    The TRUTH is you guys are sad little boys. You walk around like you’re rich CEO’s sent to rescue the impoverished and abused Chinese women. Back at home you look ridiculous in public, even children laugh to see you with your young bride. Hey, everyone deserves love, but you shouldn’t let it get to your head. You’re lucky, but not necessarily your ex or your children who will have nothing passed down to them. You need help.

  117. i m like the girl a chinese have a foreingin bf,but i dont have the brave to tell my parents yet. as i know about them, it will be a big fight and a hearts broken.
    thinking from their angle,the lanuage is really a porblem ,the background,the culture as well. but the most important thing is childrens happinese,isnt it…..i dont really understand why they just say “no” to foreigners. ><

  118. i m in the same boat as these are my girl friend is Chinese i have told her mom and dad that i will learn Chinese. me and my girl friend want to be together when we first seen each other we both knew we where ment to be together. and know i have to let her go because her mom and dad do not approve of me, when they do not know me. they are making her choose between me and them. all i want is for her to be happy, and i love her very much. she does not want to end our realationship but her family are making her do it. i have never experienced this before and i am finding it hard to let her go because i dont want to let her go as i feel we are one. any advise or help would be great.

  119. i have been reading through the thoughts and views that people have said on this forums.

    and i believe that 75% of the realationships work out the other 25% are the ones that don’t, therefore i think that mom’s,dads and family members should respect there child’s choice and be supportive of there choice.

    because if the Chinese girl or boy meet a foreign girl or boy then i believe it to be their choice to have a realationship with them, obviously language is a problem so if it was me i would learn my girlfriends language and culture out of respect and devotion to that person.

    If you truly love someone i believe you will want that person to have a good fate,good life and to be happy doing everything she/he does.

  120. Thank you to everyone who posted, it really consoled me. I’m a western, quite traditional girl, looking for her chinese baimawangzi. In my previous relationship with a chinese guy it’s been my family to oppose, not because of the nationality (two marriages with foreigners in my family already) but because of religion, catholic me, muslim him, as neither of us agreed to convert there was no way to build a family. My shining new boyfriend (chinese), been together for days only, already chocked my hopes of white dress and of kids taken to the youeryuan by saying that his parents would never accept a foreign girlfriend/wife. His method is “don’t think about it, let’s be happy” Weren’t chinese guys supposed to like commitment and to like foreigners? If so, why most of the advances I received in my single period have been made by chinese married man with chinese wife and kids? It seems to be a problem to introduce a foreign girl to your mom, but not to court her after you got your chinese wife. Living in China I feel sometimes like a very expensive cake in a shop’s show window, people stares at it, likes it, would like to take it home, but the price!

  121. Sunshine Says: July 16, 2009 at 7:37 pm

    I have a different problem. I am American, my boyfriend is Chinese. He is 9 years younger than me. His parents don’t care that I am American, they will not accept me bacause I am older. They are traditional Chinese from the North. He spent the last 12 years in the US. They told him he can date me, but never marry me. He is scared to go against his parents & he doesn’t know what to do. He feels he has no one to talk to about this or that can help him. We don’t want to lose each other. Any ideas? I can’t make him choose between me and his parents, how can you do that to someone you love?

  122. I hope you don’t mind I came to this so late, but it’s an interesting post, especially as there are so many more Chinese woman – Foreign guy couples, you would tend to think that this happens less. From my experience, it’s been a lot harder to get around the parents when you’re a foreign woman with a Chinese guy. I had the “we can’t accept a foreign girl” reaction from two guys I dated years ago.

    Anyhow, hope you and your girlfriend are enjoying a blissful relationship together!

  123. I have tried to date chinese women that I have chatted with at the local restaurants with no luck. one did not even know that she could go to the library downtown and check our books and use the internet for free. Are this women being herded like cattle after work to a big safe house where they are prevented from learning about America?

  124. my ex was chinese. We were together for 10 months before her parents convinced her that me being a foreigner, our lives would not be as she thinks. She dumped me the day after…

    It’s been more than a year since and she found herself a new chinese boyfriend.
    I’m still single and heartbroken </3

  125. Emmanuel koonce Says: January 30, 2010 at 1:32 am

    know more about what is the reason for your change Xuan, It’s your father, I’m sure….the comments talk about so many points but all seem to point to fear, lack of knowledge and down right racism….having a chinese husband wont mean he wont cheat on u….that is the decision of that man….man cheat in all races..this does not mean all men will cheat..and success is not determined how much u make or what position/title u have…success comes with what makes u happy your passion…are far as the language barriers and cultural differences, nothing is impossible, my sheer determination to love u and honor u is and always omni-present and infinite.

    I read every single comment….basically its fear on your parents thinking of foreigner/american/especially african american…they don’t even know what my family is like..what my people went through with white(portuguese,spaniards,etc) people being racist did to us…made us slaves for 365 years and killed millions of africans during that time…The jews holocaust is not the only holocaust. There is a Chinese Holocaust, Tibetan Holocaust, and the list goes on and on. The building of the chinese wall is an example of millions of chinese slaves died and buried in or around the wall….not to mention Qing Dynasty slayed millions of his own people to unify china….

    China and other nations needs to stop thinking they are a separate race from the world…they are all from the very first people who walked this earth we all are….see link below..

    Humanity is such a primitive species…..

    the most damaging ideology in this world is to think that any race is superior to any other…that is what leads to wars…if you look in all nations history, u can see it at the root of more then 90% of world conflicts, with the struggle for power being the hiding undertone factor.

    China has forgetton, that many american pilots and soldiers(black,white,and others) died fighting japanese invasion of mainland China. Japanese being asian, treated chinese’s as low life dogs….nanjing is clear example of what your own asian people can do to itself…

    Your 60 years of Communist rule was accomplished in blood of a million chinese people..

    Please don’t talk to of culture…..There is not one of u on this planet who understand true culture.

    Culture is what all people share from their experiences, which defines a basic shared beliefs that all people have. Individualism does not define us, it separates us, categorize us, in the end breeds and destroys our youth.

    Who u are is a statement of what you have become through your own elightment,growth and wisdom, not what others expect of u.

    The human species has been walking this planet for thousands of years.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/0216_050216_omo.html

    This time and in this very moment the Human species knows more about itself then any other time in our History.

    If this species is to demise it has no one but to blame expect itself, through sheer ignorance. Not the devil or God or any other nonsense, but through relucantance to take responsibility for its actions.

    I love u xuan, and on one can take that away from us..it is eternal and on one has the right to dictate its policy….no one…I not going to run away xuan if u marry me and love me…I’m human and I do have feelings and do love just like everyone else…

    I wish i was never born into this world……..

    Trava Koonce

  126. mmm ur one incredibly lucky guy. my parents are like that girl’s parents…. i’m dating a non-chinese… and got disowned. there’s so much hate and racism in my familiy. i hate traditional chinese parents.. sometimes i wish i was never born chinese so i wouldn’t have to go through this sh*t.

    • Hi, I read your post and need your help. I’m in the same position… Cut me off. What do you try to do, have they accepted him? And how long.

      Please I need your help.

  127. Hi John,

    I am in a relationship with a charming aussie young man, hmm but my parents are far less than being supportive. They have a stereotype over westerners. Basically, they think that westerners are more likely to go for divorce than chinese ppl, when a marriage is facing big problems.. But it seems like they haven’t realised that divorce rate in china is catching up. But anyway, they have been thinking too much. That’s kinda frustrating. That’s why I googled and wanted to see if anyone has the same problem. Then I found your page..
    The first thing that came to my mind after I’ve read your post was “woww.. this guy is really very lucky, and the girl too. ” Envy you~~
    All the best!!!

    Kat

  128. I could not imagine that how my parents act when they were told that i have been dating a foreign bf for like two years.
    sometimes I feel I am nothing but a coward.But do i really trust him enough?Nobody is very sure of any future.That’s the problem.We are been through the hardest time now,long-distance relationship,lots of shit came up during the seven hours jet lag.
    We still love each other.But…

  129. Bipin Nepani,
    I do not think it is true that we have more men then women in the US. I am a Chinese American in my early 40th. I have no
    problem picking young women (white women and Asian women).
    I think it has to do with supplies and demands.

    All women (regardless of race) want
    – Successful
    – charisma
    – well educated
    – handsome men
    – fun
    – easy going
    – loving
    – caring
    – respectful
    – communications

    If they can not get it all, they will settle for what is
    attainable. Poor women put wealth in higher priority than others on the list. Please do not flatter yourself thinking that you are stunt man simply because you are old.

    Instead of travel to third world countries to boost up your status or bad mouthing about American women (white or asians). You should concentrate on attaining many attributes
    on the list as you can. Consequently, everything will falling
    in place regardless of where you are.

    Relationship are like business, if you are old and you want
    a hot young woman, than stop complaining about the girl being with you for visa or money.

    In regard to love, if you have most of the attributes she
    wants, then love will consequently follows.

    Once the infatuation period is over, what really bond the
    relationship is not the sex or the material things but common interests, outlooks in life, goals, and most important of all respects. Note, most of these attributes are on the list
    except respects.

  130. Alright, well I have reading quite a few of these forums in an attempt to more fully understand the cultural differences, and I have to say I am often disappointed with how the conversation deteriorates into a series of stereotypes on both ends. In an increasing globalized world, I think such stereotypes are not only inaccurate and unfair, but merely serve to illustrate one’s ignorance.

    I guess, I’ll start by addressing some of the things Da Xiangchang has said, since he has been one of the most active posters in the forum.

    Firstly, 95% of western men are not simply looking for sex, and will not cheat. I have hundreds of male friends in the US and I would say 95% of them would rather be in a relationship than be single. And I barely ever hear stories about people cheating. Of my close friends, I know for a fact it hasn’t happened.

    I’ll agree, there are some that look at things differently, but those are individuals. Most of us are searching for connection, just like everyone else.

    Secondly, many western men aren’t simply interested Chinese women because they can’t get the same caliber girl in the West. For me, it’s that the Chinese girls I have met can be tremendously intelligent, funny/outgoing and the opportunity to add another dimension of culture to both partners.

    And one last thing, that comment about asking a Hooters waitress her number, and getting it. Of course, that would not only happen in China! It happens all the time in the United States, and I’ve gotten a couple myself that way. 😉

    We look at public shame in a very different way. To us, if she says no, she says no. No big deal. No loss of face. If anything I like leaving knowing I probably made that waitresses day a little bit better (even if she said no).

    Anyways, my point of all this is that we’re individuals! Generalizations are never appropriate, and we’re much better off trying to learn about the person we’re with. In my experience, all this other stuff has been bullsh*t. 😀

  131. I’ll briefly share my story, not with the expectation that anyone cares, but merely as an example that violates much of the generally excepted notions in this forum and hopefully to get some real advice.

    I am a 24 year old investment analyst in the United States, who is currently madly in love with a Chinese girl.

    In the past, I have never had to try hard to get with girls (in the States/Canada/Europe/Asia). That said, I only go for girls that I find an emotional and intellectual connection with. Although not every relationship has been long/serious, they’ve all started with an insightful conversation. Furthermore, I tend to put genuine care and consideration into every relationship (even if it’s casual), and have never cheated on anyone (nor would I ever).

    Anyway, as I was traveling around the world, I crossed paths with such an interesting soul. Not only was this girl tremendously upbeat, scarily smart and very outgoing, immediately I could tell she had a really good heart (which was later confirmed by all the outreach programs to rural communities she’d coordinated). Needless to say, we connected on a lot of different levels.

    Now that our relationship has progressed, I am still in love with her, and want her to be my only one.

    However, this issue of facing the parents is a big one for me. That don’t really know about me, and judging from what I know so far I am assuming her parents will respond precisely how John’s girlfriend’s did.

    Not only will they not approve, I’m pretty convinced that her father will go into a huge tirade about how she’s going to leave him to die an old lonely man. (Apparently, there was a similar type response when he found out about her last boyfriend being European).

    Frankly, I have no idea ho to handle this! I really love this girl and want to marry her (and she seems convince too), but I cannot imagine ‘popping the question’ without getting her father’s permission.

    Initially, I thought I could travel to her remote village to introduce myself to them and attempt to get permission (thereby keeping the fact that I want to propose a secret). I figured I could use what Chinese I know along friends to write out what I want communicate to them ahead of time. However, I have no idea how they’d react, or what happens if they say ‘no.’

    Another option which is far less romantic would be to talk more about marriage with her (which we’ve done a lot), and then traveling together to meet her parents and ask for permission. But to me, that just seems far less exciting than having the ‘go ahead’ to get down on one knee and take her breath away.

    I guess I don’t technically need their permission to ask her, but to me it’s the respectable thing to do.

    It’s a dilemma! Would really like some advice from anyone who has been through anything similar!!!! Thanks a ton.

  132. Hey Alex,

    I can relate to your experience. I am a Chinese girl with a traditional mother and my boyfriend is foreign. I recently broke the news to my parents and my mum is convinced that my boyfriend is a bad guy and trying to take advantage from me.

    So for your situation, I would definitely not recommend popping the questions out of thin air. Chinese parents are not usually good with these surprises. Maybe ask the girl to tell them first, even though that may disturb the peace in the house, but at least it will allow them to set an expectation.

    The battle with the parents is a big and delicate one. I didn’t seem to have handled it well… hopefully my mum would forgive me over time and come to terms with my relationship.

    Since you posted your story a few months ago, do you have any progress? It’ll be great if you can share it.

  133. Hi Jane,

    The original post of this thread could have been talking about my situation. There are so many similarities (‘what will we tell our friends’, ‘he’s just going to take advantage of you’ etc), the only possible difference being that I am a few years older than my girlfriend (33 vs 24, which adds a whole ‘nother problem). I have booked to visit her soon in Shanghai (not her parents’ home city), and wondered if you had any advice? I have drafted a letter to them explaining my honourable motives, which I am going to translate.
    I wondered if you had any advice from your own experience that I could pass on to my girlfriend, as she is pretty upset about the whole thing? I think that in time they could accept me, but I don’t know if my girlfriend can stand up to her mum for that long, as she doesn’t want to sour her relationship with them and her mum is pretty forceful.
    I’m heartened to read that we’re not the only ones finding it difficult!

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